Grendal 6.5

[Perple_Nerple]

Sooooo I remember watching this on Future Weapons a while back and it got me wondering if this neat little toy can be had legally in Canada.

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I even tried searching the forum first, but all i could find was the odd post about the 6.5 ammo being hard to find.

So, what is it? Can you get these in Canada? Does anyone on the board have one? More importantly, does anyone want to let me try a few rounds through it at the range? hehe

 

[pac_man]

It's an amazing caliber. I haven't bought one because finding ammo would be problematic.

 

[Rotorwing_Savior]

The components for handloading are readily available. Barrels and bolts are not too common. Also, it's Grendel, not Grendal!

 

[Longshot]

Looks pretty good on paper!The 6mm and 6.5mm calibres are really taking off.I think Mysticplayer can find you whatever you need easily.

 

[ops_3329]

Questar has the 7.62 x 39mm LMT enhanced bolt available that is all the talk on AR15.com for the 6.5 grendel builds it has the longest life span compared to other versions.

 

[rivetc78]

I don't think you can get the 6.5 here. Isn't it Prohib?

If you spelt GrendEl properly... you might have found some threads on those.

HERE

HERE

HERE

 

[Taman]

Why not a 6.8....?

 

[Glenfilthie]

I think it is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist. If the military wants punch they have it in spades with the .308.

There are other funky calibres coming out for the AR too. Big Green had something they called the AR30 or some damned thing awhile back.

I shoot paper targets with my AR so the Grendel doesn't really offer me anything personally...

 

[Rotorwing_Savior]

Why not a 6.8....?

It depends on your intended purpose. The 6.8 was developed to be comparable to the 7.62x39. The 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel have similar performance out to, I forget, 300- 600 yards, but the 6.5 Grendel excels at ranges out to 1000 yards, due to the high BC projectiles available. So.............if you're punchin paper inside 300 yards, go with inexpensive 5.56. If you're trying to knock down steel(or the enemy) at 300-500 yards, choose the 6.8 or 6.5G, but if you're into precision long distance shooting with the AR15, the 6.5 Grendel is the only way to go.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Thanks Longshot.

I can offer all the reloading stuff from brass, bullets, dies.

Can offer you barrel blanks from shilen and McGowen. Shilen makes AR competition barrels in 223 but not sure if they have enough demand to warrant doing other cals. Very accurate but not cheap.

The rest you can get from CGN sponsors - look up at the banners.

Given how good a 223 can be made to shoot LR, I really can't say the 6.5 Grendel offers much more ballistically. Definitely will hit harder so if knocking over plates, sure.

But a 22cal 75gr VLD hits pretty well too.

Jerry

 

[firemachine69]

My .308 has more kick.


Unless you're making me carry the damn thing, then smaller is better!

 

[beltfed]

Given how good a 223 can be made to shoot LR, I really can't say the 6.5 Grendel offers much more ballistically. Definitely will hit harder so if knocking over plates, sure.

But a 22cal 75gr VLD hits pretty well too.

Jerry

Past 400m with mag fed guns, the Grendel will (theoretically) clean the .223s clock.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Past 400m with mag fed guns, the Grendel will (theoretically) clean the .223s clock.

This might surprise you.

6.5 Grendel data taken from a G&A article about a Baer tackdriving AR with a 20" barrel. 123gr loads going around 2550fps. Sierra 123gr MK's was one of the bullets used and we now have very good BC data for it.

I know the 75gr Amax will fit in an AR mag and can be shoot very accurately out of an HK SL8. Assume an AR will do the same. The 75gr Berger VLD is almost identical to the Amax so will also fit and work just fine. Benchmark would be the powder and CCI 400 or 450 depending on tuning.

SAAMI velocity is 2950fps but let's say it is 2850fps in a 20" gas gun. I have reached 2950fps in a 22" Stevens bolt rifle so dropping 100fps should be achievable.

Distances using the JBM program are 300, 500, 700 and 1000yds. Drop in MOA/Windage in inches for a 10mph 90deg

223 -4.1/7.4" -10.4/22.5" -18.7/48.6" -37/118"

6.5G -5.2/7" -12.5/20.8" -21.7/44.3" -40.7/104.2"

So the 223 shoots flatter and the Grendel drifts just a hair less. I figure 2" more at 500yds and 1min more drift at 1000yds is not getting blown away.

If we allow the 223 to fly at the SAAMI level of 2950fps, the difference shrinks even more.

223/75gr Amax at 2950fps -3.8/7" -9.5/21.3" -17.2/45.9" -33.9/111"

I doubt anyone is going to be able to tell the difference in the field.

The Grendel is much too small a case to really extract all the good stuff from the 6.5 bullets but it does do a decent job.

There is no denying that the 6.5 will deliver more lead on target but the 223 is no slouch for paper and PD punching.

Jerry

 

[beltfed]

I know the 75gr Amax will fit in an AR mag and can be shoot very accurately out of an HK SL8. Assume an AR will do the same.

Jerry,
I honestly think you are playing with fire. I'ved loaded the 75 amax to mag lengths and the hold of the case on the bearing surface of the bullet is precarious at best. With brass trimmed to 1.750", the edge of the brass isn't flush with the bearing surface - it's into the ogive and the majority of the bullet body is below the line of the start of the neck. Hornady doesn't recommend loading to mag length, and I can see why.

SAAMI velocity is 2950fps but let's say it is 2850fps in a 20" gas gun.

The MK262 load is a hot round, running Sierra and Nosler 77 grain OTB bullets and it's running 2850. I'd have a hard time believing the 75 amax can be loaded to mag length and be safely driven to 2850...


Single load, I can see the .223 giving as good as it gets, but from a mag...it's limitations are obvious.

 

[rivetc78]

Who shoots 75gr VLD's from their AR??
You are comparing a highly custom bullet to a standard Grendel load available commercially.
Compare an AR firing a standard 55gr. PMC FMJ to a Sabre Ind. AR shooting a standard 6.5 Grendel commercial round.....It will Clean it's Clock!!

The Grendel is not just for shooting paper....the 123gr Lapua puts more energy down at 600 yards than a .223 does at the barrel.....

That is like asking which car is faster a Civic or a Corvette....then dropping in a turbo in the slower car and declare it the fastest car..???

 

[Mystic Precision]

If I hadn't seen this set up, I wouldn't say it would work but it does. The ogive is slightly below the case neck correct, but most of the neck is holding the bearing surface of the bullet.

In the 200+ rds I have seen fired, there were ZERO issues, no bullet set back and plenty of accuracy. HK SL8 approx 1.5 MOA at 1000yds. This is definitely one of the most accurate semis I have had the pleasure to shoot and see shot.

Also, with a load of Benchmark, there is precisious little room in the case for the bullet to set back. It is very close to compress.

It is a myth that jacketed bullets don't work when seated below the neck shoulder junction. Every single 300WM factory load has the base/boattail of the bullet well below the neck.

No one has announced any trouble in how many decades?

The load data I have suggested is lower then what is achievable in a bolt rifle in light of the needs of a gas rifle. Considering the performance that match AR rifles are reporting, the performance I suggest is well within reason.

Isn't 5.56 NATO ammo speced at higher pressures then 223? maybe we don't need to ease up for the AR????

Whether factory ammo is available doesn't concern me cause I reload for everything and find the best performance/accuracy that way.

I have already agreed that the 6.5 will deliver a bigger hunk of lead down range. There is no dispute on that but this was a ballistic comparison.

As for a light bullet zapper, the SAAMI on a 55gr Vmax is 3380fps. So let's say 3200fps out of a 20" AR. No issue with OAL, etc.

Sure it will get bounced in the wind more then either of the above but it will go nicely to 1200yds. Yep, watched the trace all the way out.

How about the 70gr Berger VLD. That'll fit

Comparing modern 6.5 VLD bullets to stubby JFK era bullet designs is also an unfair comparison. If you wish to compare POTENTIAL, then give them both an equal shake.

Modern 22cal VLD's are pretty amazing and when fed in gas guns will up their performance HUGE.

By the way, the 77gr MK is a stubby non VLD design. With one of the lowest, if not the lowest BC of this class of bullets.

Jerry

PS Isn't there problems with bolts breaking in Grendels?

 

[TRG-42]

Questar has the 7.62 x 39mm LMT enhanced bolt available that is all the talk on AR15.com for the 6.5 grendel builds it has the longest life span compared to other versions.

The 7.62X39 bolt does NOT have the same headspace dim as the 6.5 Gendel

They 6.5 Grendel knock of the 6.5 CSS use the 7.62X39 bolt

The difference is .011"

My 6.5 Grendel bolt in my 7.62X39 will barely dimple the primer

The 7.62X39 bolt in my 6.5 Grendel will not close on sized case / round

This is not an issue because you have no reason to use a 7.62X39 bolt in a Grendel since ALL licenced Grendel barrels ( Saber Defense , AA , Satern come with a AA bolt )

I have built on both Sabre and Satern. My choice ( and the one I kept for myself ) is a Satern Cut Rifle

What impressed me most about about the 6.5 Grendel was how the originator Bill Alexander was willing to answer all my stupid questions and was a really nice guy to chat will. Matter of fact I couldn't get him off the phone after a while !