BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
That doesn't count...you probably see black bears every day!
Grizzly Rifle
- Thread starter bearhunter79
- Start date
That doesn't count...you probably see black bears every day!
Yep I see quite a bit alright soon the early sockeye runs will start on Haida Gwaii got to put new line on the Spey rod
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Interesting article in the 12th edition of Handloader's Digest, The 416 Remington Magnum: Load it for Bear. The authors (Ray Ordorica & Andy Runyan) believe 416 (or 411) 300gr bullets are better stoppers (inspite of the lower SD value).
They tell of a client who had wounded a big Bear with 3 shots from his 300 Win. Mag. They located the wounded Bear whereupon it was dispatched rather quickly with a single 300gr bullet impacting at 2700 fps -
More shock with higher impact speeds. I find the 416 caliber 300gr X and 350gr X or Mag-Tip bullets to be excellent Elk and Moose stompers. Haven't tried 400gr bullets yet.
I've been yelling this into the internet void for awhile now after seeing Grizzlies die in quick succession to heavy and stiff .300s and .375 vs lighter and faster. Faster is better and generally a bit softer bullet, and you don't need a particularly heavy bullet. I load my .375 with 235gr and it's my view of perfection for Grizz. Clearly by this logic the .45-70 isn't a good fit for me.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Sorry, I wasn't listening...
There's a lot of that going around.
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
Seems to be a threshold speed/diameter at which devastating shock develops? I also find 45 caliber 300gr X bullets impacting at high speed work great and wouldn't hesitate to use these on big Bear. I can load my 458 Win. Mag. or 458 Lott to get decent speeds at 150 to 200 meters.
Or my 45-70 Ruger No.1 which is capable of firing a 300gr bullet at 2600 fps. Older production models have a long throat for increased OAL and more case capacity.
Real Guns load data for the Marlin and Ruger No.1 lists 2367 fps MV for a 300gr NP bullet (mild for my Ruger, seems high for a Marlin??). At that muzzle speed the Marlin should be effective at close range.
No guarantees of course with anything being used. Things can always go sideways. That's what makes it interesting.
http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm
Or my 45-70 Ruger No.1 which is capable of firing a 300gr bullet at 2600 fps. Older production models have a long throat for increased OAL and more case capacity.
Real Guns load data for the Marlin and Ruger No.1 lists 2367 fps MV for a 300gr NP bullet (mild for my Ruger, seems high for a Marlin??). At that muzzle speed the Marlin should be effective at close range.
No guarantees of course with anything being used. Things can always go sideways. That's what makes it interesting.
http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm
freezer filler
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Windsor, Ontario
Yep, one of these days I gotta get me a double.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
Me too, as I would be quite happy with a Pedersoli double in 45-70. Affordable ordnance and purdy to boot.
View attachment 96838
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Not this year, been so cold it hasn't greened properly on time, start varies hugely depending on latitude and weather, there's no one answer unfortunately. I pulled my tag 59.5 degrees north this time so much different than Bella Coola or Kootenays etc.
RL15 changed everything for me in .375, literally as much as you can drop tube into the case it'll burn without pressure signs. It's a mighty flat shooting medium bore at 3050fps and an admirable ballistic coefficient. Acts like a big .300 and this load hits right on the second sight blade at 200 out of the Merkel's right barrel, handy trick.
Needless to say you nailed it, they sponsored us this year so been able to play with their stuff more than I would have previously to load develop and play.
You won't regret it, just do it right the first time and try not to go too cheap. One of those things better done once and properly in my opinion.
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
Cutting Edge Bullets have an interesting design -
"This bullet comes with Raptor Tips™ already installed. The Flat Base RaptorS are manufactured out of solid brass bar stock on a CNC Swiss style lathe. Instead of mushrooming, these hollow points are designed so that after 1-2" of penetration, 6 blades break off and radiate outward in a star pattern while the base continues on for even deeper penetration."
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/raptor-technology
Imagine how fast the 416 caliber 180gr Raptor could be driven!
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/416-180gr-flat-base-raptor
"This bullet comes with Raptor Tips™ already installed. The Flat Base RaptorS are manufactured out of solid brass bar stock on a CNC Swiss style lathe. Instead of mushrooming, these hollow points are designed so that after 1-2" of penetration, 6 blades break off and radiate outward in a star pattern while the base continues on for even deeper penetration."
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/raptor-technology
Imagine how fast the 416 caliber 180gr Raptor could be driven!
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/416-180gr-flat-base-raptor
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Mind if I ask where the interest in forcing niche rifles into odd purposes stems from? Like hot rodding .45-70 into a .458 win mag, that only works in one single rifle and offers a horrific ballistic coefficient, and leaves you with a single shot to chase your Grizz?
There are guns that do that and are meant to, and with a far better ballistics, for instance a .375 H&H at 300 grains leaving at the same velocity retains double the energy at 300 yards that nuclear Ruger No.1 loading does. And it can be fired in any .375 H&H made. It'll be more impressive on the bear too, I'd bet, as while they leave the same speed it keeps more of it.
Same to be said for the effectiveness and simplicity of a good .300, it evens kicks less than the .45-70 hot loads and is a far more useful rifle to have in the cabinet. Or, what's wrong with the .30-06, 9.3x62, or .338? This trend admittedly irks me slightly as I get some colourful suggestions and questions on rifles in outfitting that risk making my job harder than it needs to be, so don't take it too to heart.
Like hot rodding .45-70 into a .458 win mag, that only works in one single rifle and offers a horrific ballistic coefficient, and leaves you with a single shot to chase your Grizz?There are guns that do that and are meant to, and with a far better ballistics, for instance a .375 H&H at 300 grains leaving at the same velocity retains double the energy at 300 yards that nuclear Ruger No.1 loading does. And it can be fired in any .375 H&H made. It'll be more impressive on the bear too, I'd bet, as while they leave the same speed it keeps more of it.
Same to be said for the effectiveness and simplicity of a good .300, it evens kicks less than the .45-70 hot loads and is a far more useful rifle to have in the cabinet. Or, what's wrong with the .30-06, 9.3x62, or .338? This trend admittedly irks me slightly as I get some colourful suggestions and questions on rifles in outfitting that risk making my job harder than it needs to be, so don't take it too to heart.
Yep Ardent, I too have found that if you smash something with an appropriately constructed bullet for caliber with a muzzle velocity of 3100 fps or better, things tend to die right there much more often than not. I have found Accubonds to be more spectacular than Partitions, but more often than not do not exit.......which is irrelevant when the bullet goes where it's supposed to. The more shock and energy you can impart on an animal, combined with proper shot placement, the quicker the animal succumbs to the injury. I have even found that some fringe shots on animals more prone to shock, can be just as lethal with high velocity impacts. I have seen sheep and deer succumb almost instantly to what should have been a non-instantly lethal shot, however the shock from the 30 caliber magnum with 180 gn bullets at nearly 3200 fps was just too much for their system to absorb without shutting down.
Bears are not so fragile but add velocity to a well constructed bullet put into the right place and you will have a dead bear considerably quicker, if not instantly. I have determined through my hunting and observing animal reactions to hits, that a 200 gn 30 cal bullet started at 3100 fps or better, is one of the most devastating bullets on game of all NA sizes. Hence my love for my 300 Wby and my great respect for the 300 RUM.........even the 300 WM which will get it out at 3000 fps when properly loaded, is not to be sneered at, by any means and is a fantastic killer of thin skinned game, right up to and including big bears and bison. Of course the 340 is just more of a good thing..........
After having hunted with many guides and PHs, I grasp exactly what you are saying.........not one of all the people I know in the industry would recommend anyone bring a single shot, especially for critters that can bite back, and no one would recommend a 45-70. It just makes their job harder and more dangerous. With the 45-70 one must now put themselves and their hunter in much closer proximity to the bear to assure good placement and a potentially good hit. Anytime one can add an extra 50 or 100 mtrs between you and the bears at the shot, it is a good thing, especially for spot and stalk grizzly hunting...........stand hunting is different, I suppose, but I have never done this as baiting is not legal in the Yukon.
There is a term in the industry for people who wish to hunt with a rifle or cartridge that is way out of the norm.......and it isn't very complimentary.
Bears are not so fragile but add velocity to a well constructed bullet put into the right place and you will have a dead bear considerably quicker, if not instantly. I have determined through my hunting and observing animal reactions to hits, that a 200 gn 30 cal bullet started at 3100 fps or better, is one of the most devastating bullets on game of all NA sizes. Hence my love for my 300 Wby and my great respect for the 300 RUM.........even the 300 WM which will get it out at 3000 fps when properly loaded, is not to be sneered at, by any means and is a fantastic killer of thin skinned game, right up to and including big bears and bison. Of course the 340 is just more of a good thing..........
After having hunted with many guides and PHs, I grasp exactly what you are saying.........not one of all the people I know in the industry would recommend anyone bring a single shot, especially for critters that can bite back, and no one would recommend a 45-70. It just makes their job harder and more dangerous. With the 45-70 one must now put themselves and their hunter in much closer proximity to the bear to assure good placement and a potentially good hit. Anytime one can add an extra 50 or 100 mtrs between you and the bears at the shot, it is a good thing, especially for spot and stalk grizzly hunting...........stand hunting is different, I suppose, but I have never done this as baiting is not legal in the Yukon.
There is a term in the industry for people who wish to hunt with a rifle or cartridge that is way out of the norm.......and it isn't very complimentary.
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