Group size - At what point do you stop?

chrismc

chrismc

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So over the years I have been pursuing accuracy - started tweaking 2 MOA guns, then 1 MOA, then got the bug and started building/rebarreling in search of the best possible groups. Not competing, just personal goals. I told myself I wanted to get 1/2MOA consistently with a few rifles, and now I have a couple that are there and more. Started at 100yds, got boring, so then moved to 200yds, still boring... now am shooting 300 yds to add to the challenge.
So yesterday we shot some repeatable silly sized small groups (2 guns, 2 loads), much smaller than I had ever thought possible. And I am sure I will take this load and try and tweak the neck tension, seating depth, etc etc just because thats all I have done before... but then I asked myself, where do you stop?
So where does it stop? What do you guys deem as a group size where you leave good enough alone? Or do you tweak away until you have exhausted everything trying to get the groups even smaller?
I am thinking i may leave the load alone (but prob will try and tweak a bit!) and start stretching the distance.... What would you do? At what point do you stop tweaking??? What is deemed a "good group size" that you would stop at?
Just am curious to see what other accuracy buffs think, what goals do you have, and when you achieve your goals, what next??
I decided to set my goals to shoot 3 ea 5 shot groups into 1/2 MOA at 500yds - tough challenge, but possible...
 
It really depends on what you want I suppose. For me my furthest distance on my range is 1200M. Its a 14x14in. Steel plate. So if on my worst ever, most hungover, most brutal shooting day I can get 1 MOA or less...I'm good to go! I plan on turning my private range into an MOA range this summer. Starting at 500m every tgt will be an MOA square!
 
Pursuing accuracy...

Get into short range Centerfire Benchrest shooting. 1/2 minute won't cut it... sometimes those guys shoot aggregates in the .100's at 100 yards. The records are less.
 
I stop when the time (read: effort) it takes to reload the ammo starts taking away from the enjoyment of shooting the ammo. Im sure I could tighten my groups up further if I start whispering sweet-nothings into my brass while I prep them, while getting everything perfect down to thousandths of an inch...but at that point, me (the shooter) is affecting things way more than the .001" I massaged out of my finished case.

Right now, I'm happy if I can hit a sub-MOA plate up to 900m, and I'm not spending an exorbitant amount of time making the ammo to do it.
 
I agree with guntech. I was in your position years ago. I started shooting short range BR about 10 years ago and every match I still learn something that can improve my groups. Whether it is load tuning, gun handling, bench manners, condition reading, trigger use, body posture, time management, equipment setup, bag tension, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. Thousands of an inch count and separate winners from the losers. Applying all the proper techniques and lessons learned from shot to shot is the challenge for me and of course interpreting changes in the wind. Load development is just the beginning. Short range BR is the ultimate quest for precision and is a completely different animal than long range BR or Fclass. I shoot both Fclass (on occasion) and BR (extensively) and dare I say Fclass just might be more enjoyable but not nearly as challenging to get to the top of the leader board and stay there.:nest: I enjoy the tougher challenge.
 
Ask yourself what the accuracy improvements are for. If its about higher scores on an F-Class Bryan Litz has done some excellent modeling on how much accuracy improvements will improve your score. Its less than you might think. Give a rocket scientist who shoots some modelling software and there's no end to the uses he'll put it to.

If its about how far you can head shoot a gopher, then the smaller the better. There's a direct link between how the gun shoots and how long of shots you can reliably make and its very worthwhile.

If its about big game hunting, then there's very few instances where a rifle that shoots better than MOA is an advantage.

If its about shooting tiny groups for the sake of shooting tiny groups, and the pursuit of mechanical perfection then you are a likely candidate for a benchrest rifle. Then a suitable goal is .000".
 
When the entire system provides the accuracy and precision you need to complete the intended task.

Every end use will have a different point of diminishing returns. Each user will cry "uncle" at a different point in this cycle.

There is no end to this process but at some point the real world gains start to get real small for huge increase in effort.

And then the barrel wears out....

Jerry
 
b72471 said:
As stated above short range BR is the one to drive you crazy. Sooo build yourself a 6PPC and shoot 1,2+300 meters.
enjoy
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So true! One must be obsessive/compulsive to get any sort of satisfaction out of short range BR shooting. Sometimes I wonder why I bother being so particular. A loading block full of match winning rounds and perfect equipment setup won't make up for a missed condition change that will send you to the bottom of the score sheet and keep you there for the rest of the match. Arrg. :bangHead:
 
If I were able to shoot .5-1MOA on a regular basis, I would start stretching your legs into some silly long ranges like 1000+ yards (1000 is not crazy long for some people I know, but for me and my .308 it would be a stretch to say the least). Making a 1 hole group at 100 yards is cool but I would rather shoot a steel silhouette at 1000-1200 yards than paper at 100....it's all just preference I guess, we all love this sport for different reasons.
 
Mystic Precision said:
When the entire system provides the accuracy and precision you need to complete the intended task.

Every end use will have a different point of diminishing returns. Each user will cry "uncle" at a different point in this cycle.

There is no end to this process but at some point the real world gains start to get real small for huge increase in effort.

And then the barrel wears out....

Jerry
Click to expand...

Good advice here.
 
Group size - At what point do you stop?

LOL, you never stop! I would try for .5 moa then .4, then .3, then .2, then .1 and now trying for .0xx. No matter how good it gets you will want better! Enjoy the fun trying for your "best"!
 
lwing said:
Try silhouette shooting , separate the man from the gun. See how accurate you are. Opened my eyes
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Silhouette one shot it from 100m to 1000m is good for me :p

sub-moa on paper up to 600m, never shot at paper further than that I dont like it that much anyway
 
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