Group size - At what point do you stop?

If its about shooting tiny groups for the sake of shooting tiny groups said:
There is no end to this process but at some point the real world gains start to get real small for huge increase in effort. And then the barrel wears out....[/QUOTE said:
points well said.
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swissinn said:
Short range BR is all about the gear and ammo. Long range precision is all about the wind call.
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In short range BR one can have the best equipment money can buy and ammo made by the top shooters in the world but if you can't read the wind you're not going to do well. It always comes down to your ability to call the wind. Always.

How do long range BR and Fclass guys call the wind?
 
hend238 said:
In short range BR one can have the best equipment money can buy and ammo made by the top shooters in the world but if you can't read the wind you're not going to do well. It always comes down to your ability to call the wind. Always.

How do long range BR and Fclass guys call the wind?
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I'm still fairly new to this but from my understanding.... a lot of BR, even 1000yard BR, is about picking a condition and shooting your group in a few seconds while that condition holds, sometimes 3-4 seconds and that group is done with good guys firing the next shot before the previous case even hit the bench.

F-class, you could be in position for 30-45minutes if you're 3 on a target. Quite often there's a fair bit of change in that 3-4 minutes, wind, and elevation if mirage/cloud cover, before you shoot again, sometimes enough to put the bullet completely off the target if you don't dial something in. There's also added distractions of scoring another shooter, keep track of your own, but its a lot of fun.

Every discipline has its skills, tricks, rules and requirements. I like to think they all demand lots of dedication, skill, and proper equipment if you want to be at the top, although some perhaps more than others. I think most would rate the skill of TR and .22 match rifle shooters really high.
Equipment is a big part of F-class too.
 
SND said:
I'm still fairly new to this but from my understanding.... a lot of BR, even 1000yard BR, is about picking a condition and shooting your group in a few seconds while that condition holds, sometimes 3-4 seconds and that group is done with good guys firing the next shot before the previous case even hit the bench.

F-class, you could be in position for 30-45minutes if you're 3 on a target. Quite often there's a fair bit of change in that 3-4 minutes, wind, and elevation if mirage/cloud cover, before you shoot again, sometimes enough to put the bullet completely off the target if you don't dial something in. There's also added distractions of scoring another shooter, keep track of your own, but its a lot of fun.

Every discipline has its skills, tricks, rules and requirements. I like to think they all demand lots of dedication, skill, and proper equipment if you want to be at the top, although some perhaps more than others. I think most would rate the skill of TR and .22 match rifle shooters really high.
Equipment is a big part of F-class too.
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1000 yrd br you pick a condition run them and hope you don't get burned by something changing you can't see ,
In Short range br, that strategy will get you Way down the list ,(fast is not better you have to know where the bullet is going before you pull the trigger ) when you see someone running in short range they are likely holding off to finish the group which requires reading the changes on the flags and adjusting poa while cycling the bolt and reloading, it is rare to get five shots in exactly the same condition ( some calm days it does happen , we call those a trigger pull and they are not fun ) .you have to know how the condition change will effect the bullet and also how much , I suspect the same is true of all disciplines
 
SND said:
I'm still fairly new to this but from my understanding.... a lot of BR, even 1000yard BR, is about picking a condition and shooting your group in a few seconds while that condition holds, sometimes 3-4 seconds and that group is done with good guys firing the next shot before the previous case even hit the bench.

F-class, you could be in position for 30-45minutes if you're 3 on a target. Quite often there's a fair bit of change in that 3-4 minutes, wind, and elevation if mirage/cloud cover, before you shoot again, sometimes enough to put the bullet completely off the target if you don't dial something in.
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How do the 1000 yard BR guys know when to start their group and the Fclass shooters know how much to "dial in"?
 
Every range seems different, some have a 100 different flags for 100yard, others have none or 2-3 for 1000. Some days you're better off looking for mirage through the scope than flags, other days the other way around. Sometimes you think something changed and it didn't, other times it seems it didn't, but it has, other days gut feeling and not over thinking it is about the best thing...
Some look at targets on both sides to see where others bullets ended up.
 
If I'm consistently under 1 MOA I either stretch the range or make it more difficult for myself, ie. no rear support, no bipod, etc. but it hasn't really been an issue.
 
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