Group size on a savage 10FP

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I took the savage heavy barrel out today to sight it in. Once I sighted it in I went thru about 10 more rounds on target, avarage around an 1.5" fired from a bipod. The barrel was warm and felt like a cup with hot coffee in it. I found my group size grow to around 4 inches. Is a group size that big with a warm barrel normal? The amunition was cheep federal and the bore had 25 rounds thru it since the last cleaning, which may also be a big factor.
 
You can't expect good groups with "cheap" factory ammo.

I load a Hornady 75gr HPBT over 24gr of 748 for a buddy's 10FP.
Neck sizing the brass helps a bit too, but I don't always do it.
He shoots dime size groups at 100yrds and can shoot a fig.11 target in the head at 800yrds again and again and again and again....
 
The key factor here is cheap ammo. I shoot cheap stuff as well. Federal Fusion 180Gr and I average 1.5-2MOA groups. Its only been tested on paper to 200 but I have blasted rocks a bit bigger than your fist out to 400 with the same ammo.

TDC
 
my savage 308 shot sub-moa with white-box winchester 147 grainers (the only factory ammo I bothered to put through it.) Handloads were still much better.
 
frontier23 said:
I took the savage heavy barrel out today to sight it in. Once I sighted it in I went thru about 10 more rounds on target, avarage around an 1.5" fired from a bipod. The barrel was warm and felt like a cup with hot coffee in it. I found my group size grow to around 4 inches. Is a group size that big with a warm barrel normal? The amunition was cheep federal and the bore had 25 rounds thru it since the last cleaning, which may also be a big factor.
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Ammo would be the first thing to look at. 25 rounds through the barrel since the last cleaning is just getting started. You can shoot hundreds before you need to clean. Some barrels shoot better when fouled.
 
Only since I've started reloading did I realize what a difference a ammunition makes. In my 308 target rifle portugese surplus shoots 1.5 MOA. 155 Grain Palma match with 47 grain varget in a fireformed case .3 MOA.

Even my friends BLR with that decent bullet was able to group .75 Moa. Who would a thunk it. (Not even fireformed cases so who knows how could it can get).

I suspect your savage is capable of better.
 
frontier23 said:
I took the savage heavy barrel out today to sight it in. Once I sighted it in I went thru about 10 more rounds on target, avarage around an 1.5" fired from a bipod. The barrel was warm and felt like a cup with hot coffee in it. I found my group size grow to around 4 inches. Is a group size that big with a warm barrel normal? The amunition was cheep federal and the bore had 25 rounds thru it since the last cleaning, which may also be a big factor.
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If your not into reloading, not set up for that rifle, or gaining experience at the reloading table, try Jamies advice.

Call Peter Dobson of Hirsch Precision (Site Sponsor). He's a great guy and Lapua dealer. Order up a couple boxes of Lapua Match ammo, this stuff is hands down the best factory stuff I've ever used in my rifle and I do reload, a lot.

You should see a difference right off the top! If anyone had doubt over how well an off the shelfer Savage can shoot they should see what Mysticplayer does with a Savage! :D

Good luck with your new rifle, give Peter a call and he can get of off on the right foot with both loaded match ammo and reloading components when you so choose.

As for the barrel felling like a cup of hot coffee,,, patients my friend,,, space out your shooting so that the barrel does not get to hot. It will affect your point of impact,,, at a minimum. It will also cook down your barrel much faster.
 
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Federal Premium 168gr BTHP shoots nice out of my 10fp. Give that a go. Puts a smile on my face every time when i see the groups. Easy 1/2 groups or better @ 100yds. Using cheap ammo sucks. Stick to the good stuff or get into reloading your own. My 2 cents. :)
 
warm barrell

If i'm not mistaken your question was not ammo related but warm barrell related. I've found different barrells will move point of impact more or less than others due to a few factors. You need to find out what makes yours do it and make notes. My shooting partner has a very heavy barrelled .223 and IF you can get it warm it moves point of impact a hair farther than 1/8th" while mine moved just over 1/2 " My Mauser will move, 1.5".
I find a small caliber with a heavy barrell is not effected very much at 100 but a larger bore or magnum even with a thin barrell can move alot.
I've learned to be patient and only shoot "X" amout out of each gun before letting it cool. You need to find out how many you can shoot before it moves and then stop in time. Wastes less ammo and not as hard on your gun.
 
I don't reload and only shoot cheap ammo (because that's all that is available around here). My Rem700 will shoot sub-moa (at 100 yards) easily if I put any effort into it. The gun shoots much better than me with simple factory ammo....the gun can shoot sub-moa but I can't always do it.

I have noticed that the groups grow if I start to shoot too many too fast.

Factory ammo or not, I think a heavy barrel gun should be able to shoot better than 4" groups.
 
You didn't mention calibre. My 10 FPLE in .223 will shoot sub-moa using Winchester White Box. Handloads are consistantly 1/2 to 3/4 moa on a calm day out to 300 meters. My best group using WWB was a .586" group at 150 yards. My guns first shot cold/clean will be 2" high left @10 o'clock, and settle on the third shot. My best groups will come off a warm barrel, usually 1 shot every minute with a 20 minute cool down after 3 strings of 5 shots. Any faster and my groups open up slightly to 1 to 1 1/4 moa. I hope this helps.

-Jason

223group003.jpg

223group001.jpg
 
I just got a new 10FP in .308, and the very first few groups were shot with the cheaper Remington 150gn. The groups weren't anything to brag about, but I was cleaning between shots and sighting in.

After running through the first box, I then switched over to Federal Gold match 168gn. I was a bit surprised at how the impact point of the Federals were different from the Remingtons- compared to the lighter 150gn, the Federals were about 4" lower and 2" left. It took a few shots to get back to the bullseye.

Slowly things tightened up, but by the end of the second box (still cleaning the barrel between 3 shot groups) I was about 1 1/4". Not great, but I figure it's only the second box of ammo through, and I'm still tightening the scope, etc.

I thought with the heavier barrels, that heat is much less of a factor?

The other point I have is impact point between brands of ammo. I would expect the impact point would be higher/lower, but is it usual for it to be a couple inches left or right?
 
Impact points between brands and even between different loads of the same brand can change in both your x and y axis. I had similar results between Federal fusion 180gr and Winchester silver tip 180 gr. The lateral change in POI was close to 7 inches at 100 yards and around 2 inches lower for the federal.

TDC
 
was that out of the box, or after the barrel was broken in, etc? All things being equal, I should be achieving similar results, of course one factor could be operator skill. :redface:
 
TDC said:
Impact points between brands and even between different loads of the same brand can change in both your x and y axis. I had similar results between Federal fusion 180gr and Winchester silver tip 180 gr. The lateral change in POI was close to 7 inches at 100 yards and around 2 inches lower for the federal.

TDC
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Its a strange thing...My 222 will shoot 40 gr bullets in the same holes as 55 gr bullets.

Some shift the POI some dont.

I find my 223 is very similar....45-69 gr bullets all in the same area, 75gr about an inch lower.
 
dlau said:
was that out of the box, or after the barrel was broken in, etc? All things being equal, I should be achieving similar results, of course one factor could be operator skill. :redface:
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I hate to start a #### storm but barrel break in is a myth. Any potential increase in accuracy will go unnoticed by all but the most serious and experienced shooter.

between 60-150 rounds(I record all rounds fired) out of my new 10fp I scored 3 hits on a standard sized playing card at 200 yards with Federal Fusion 180gr. That stuff runs $19.99 a box. Not exactly match grade and with a new and dirty(read close to 70 rounds fired when I shot the card) barrel.

TDC
 
I tend to believe that you shouldn't need to go through such an extensive break-in process, and there's a whack of threads on the subject anyways.

Savage's site has something about it- http://www.savagearms.com/cs_barrel.htm and one of the guys at the local shop that I trust recommended it, so no harm, no foul in following the recommendations. :)

Next time out, I'll not use the bipod and see if I can improve my groups. I'm also starting to reload, so does anyone have any recommendations on what their 10FPs like to be fed? I thought I would try 168gn as a starting point.
 
my 20" 10FP shoots 0.5 MOA with 178 hornady BTHP and 41gr varget. Last week at windy Connaught I got 1 lucky 1.5" group at 300M . Most were around 2"

Brian
 
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