Got a question. I have marlin 30-30, and starting to reload 30 30 rounds. Copper jacketed projectiles (hornady 30 Cal 150 grn Interlock)shoots fine, grouping is acceptable. Issue is cast bullets, got some Missouri Bullet Company, .309 diamter 165 Grn RNTP, Brinell 18. grouping is all over the place at 25 yards. Using 35 grains of Leverevolution. Does anyone know the culprit?
grouping with cast bullets query
- Thread starter springfield armoury
- Start date
Accuracy with casts seems to greatly depend on 2 factor, bullet fit and velocity.
Most/Many Marlin rifles will take the .310" diameter cast and often shoot better than the same bullet sized .309". Accuracy can fall off if velocity is too high. Sometimes developing a cast bullet load means you start too high and need to work down to a load that gives accuracy. There are other factors involved incl bore condition and hardness. A non-fouled bore shoots better, jacket fouling in a bore can play hell with cast bullets. A bullet that is too hard or too soft can also affect accuracy.
What velocity do you think you are getting with your cast bullet load? There is no hard rule but with a bore in good condition you should be able to push a gas check bullet into the 1800-2000 fps range with accuracy.
The other consideration is to start with a clean bore, before shooting cast give it a clean with a good copper remover first.
Most/Many Marlin rifles will take the .310" diameter cast and often shoot better than the same bullet sized .309". Accuracy can fall off if velocity is too high. Sometimes developing a cast bullet load means you start too high and need to work down to a load that gives accuracy. There are other factors involved incl bore condition and hardness. A non-fouled bore shoots better, jacket fouling in a bore can play hell with cast bullets. A bullet that is too hard or too soft can also affect accuracy.
What velocity do you think you are getting with your cast bullet load? There is no hard rule but with a bore in good condition you should be able to push a gas check bullet into the 1800-2000 fps range with accuracy.
The other consideration is to start with a clean bore, before shooting cast give it a clean with a good copper remover first.
Lyman Cast Handbook only shows 150 & 170 gr bullets.
It shows 4227 as potentially most accurate with 170 gr.
Listed min. is 16.5 and max 22.0.
flyr has you on the right track by what’s in the book.
Might be that my edition is too old but Leverevolution isn’t listed.
Good luck.
It shows 4227 as potentially most accurate with 170 gr.
Listed min. is 16.5 and max 22.0.
flyr has you on the right track by what’s in the book.
Might be that my edition is too old but Leverevolution isn’t listed.
Good luck.
Definitely pushing them too fast. Unique works excellent in the 30-30. Favourite load is 9 grs under 150 to 180 gr cast.
is there someplace to read the info. I'm just basing out from Hornady book 10th edition and the Lyman 50th edition. and they don't anything for 165 cast bullets.
I think I looked up data for the 170gr jacketed bullet using 32-35 LVR (Hodgden site)
Cast bullets are usually a bit more slippery than jacketed and require a bit less powder to get moving.
In any case, your bullets seem to be coated but not powder coated or gas checked, so you are going to have to keep velocity down.
I think I read that Hi-Tek coating may be limited to around 1500fps max.(not positive though)
I would give the reduced 4227 loads a try.
TargetAcquired
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
Big fan of 30-30 plinking here. 94 carbine. Have never seen leverevolution in stock when I've bought powder, also never dug too deep (but I'm interested). Unique, trailboss, 4198, and 4895 are my go-to powders and i did just buy some rl7 to try.
These 165gn are a softer alloy and my favourite plinker is to push them with 8.5gn unique and a magnum primer - i hit my 50 yard target 4/5 in the tube using the irons it came with.
These 165gn are a softer alloy and my favourite plinker is to push them with 8.5gn unique and a magnum primer - i hit my 50 yard target 4/5 in the tube using the irons it came with.
coyoteshooter
CGN Regular
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
to help you on your cast quest you need to read the lee loading manual the first parts will be of great interest good luck the challenge of cast is avoided by most but is most rewarding
hi tek can go pretty quick. ive been up around 1800 an no signs of leading or issue... thats what id be lookin at in the 3030- that accuracy sounds really bad, so try slowing them up a bit..
welcome to the world of cast. its a rabbit hole. you just dove into your first one.
im doin same thing for plinking with a 303 and my model 94 375..... cast, steady but enough to thump a deer if needed.
welcome to the world of cast. its a rabbit hole. you just dove into your first one.
im doin same thing for plinking with a 303 and my model 94 375..... cast, steady but enough to thump a deer if needed.
The only thing I buy for bullets is FMJ to feed some older surplus firearms that I own, everything else is cast. There isn't an animal that I have not taken with cast in North America and I have been doing it for 45 years.
As mentioned switch over to cast boolits site and read, a wealth of info there.
A couple of things that I always do when starting a load progression for cast bullets in a firearm.
1. Clean the barrel of any copper fouling.
2. Slug your barrel to find out where to start with diameter. I have an older marlin 30-30 that loves .312 sized bullets and I have a newer marlin 30-30 that wont chamber a .312 bullet. Minimum to use is at least 1 thousandth over the slugged size.
3. Use the Lyman cast bullet book to see what powder and how much to use. If your exact weight of bullet is not listed then go for the closest weight on the high side, i.e. you have a 160 grn bullet but no listing then use the info for 165 grn etc.
4. When I start out I usually use RL7 or IMR3031 if there is a listing load for it. Seems I have always had good luck with these two powders, lots of other choices out there but I can usually get them to shoot relatively good right out of the gate.
5. A cast hard bullet with the proper gas check and lube or powder coated can get easily in the neighborhood of 2200 fps no problem. I have a 444 Marlin with 230 grn bullet that consistently hovers around 2200 fps with no leading and 1.5-2.0 inches at 100 meters.
Yesterday I took a 38-55 rifle new to me to the range that I had not shot before that I had cast some bullets to see where to start. I always start at 50 meters and do all my 5 shot groups and once I find a promising group then I investigate further with the same load next time with slightly less and more powder in the same vicinity. If it seems to like 33.5 grn of something then I load up 10 rounds at 33.0,33.3,33.5,33.8, 34.0 at try them at 50 meters again. I do this to see exactly what the rifle likes and to confirm that the original loading was in the ballpark and not a fluke. You clean the barrel between groups and let the barrel cool especially for the lever action because you will get vertical stringing very quickly. My worst group of the day at 50 meters was 3 inches and my best was .75" .
As mentioned switch over to cast boolits site and read, a wealth of info there.
A couple of things that I always do when starting a load progression for cast bullets in a firearm.
1. Clean the barrel of any copper fouling.
2. Slug your barrel to find out where to start with diameter. I have an older marlin 30-30 that loves .312 sized bullets and I have a newer marlin 30-30 that wont chamber a .312 bullet. Minimum to use is at least 1 thousandth over the slugged size.
3. Use the Lyman cast bullet book to see what powder and how much to use. If your exact weight of bullet is not listed then go for the closest weight on the high side, i.e. you have a 160 grn bullet but no listing then use the info for 165 grn etc.
4. When I start out I usually use RL7 or IMR3031 if there is a listing load for it. Seems I have always had good luck with these two powders, lots of other choices out there but I can usually get them to shoot relatively good right out of the gate.
5. A cast hard bullet with the proper gas check and lube or powder coated can get easily in the neighborhood of 2200 fps no problem. I have a 444 Marlin with 230 grn bullet that consistently hovers around 2200 fps with no leading and 1.5-2.0 inches at 100 meters.
Yesterday I took a 38-55 rifle new to me to the range that I had not shot before that I had cast some bullets to see where to start. I always start at 50 meters and do all my 5 shot groups and once I find a promising group then I investigate further with the same load next time with slightly less and more powder in the same vicinity. If it seems to like 33.5 grn of something then I load up 10 rounds at 33.0,33.3,33.5,33.8, 34.0 at try them at 50 meters again. I do this to see exactly what the rifle likes and to confirm that the original loading was in the ballpark and not a fluke. You clean the barrel between groups and let the barrel cool especially for the lever action because you will get vertical stringing very quickly. My worst group of the day at 50 meters was 3 inches and my best was .75" .
