grouse on the ground?
- Thread starter david doyle
- Start date
Why aren't porcupines considered a great game animal? Why is the WT deer a great hunting challenge? Why do people hunt? Do you consider shooting barnyard chickens to be 'hunting'? Does shooting fish in a barrel satisfy your shooting goals? Do you hunt for the meat only, or is there more to it than that?
No one can force you to hunt, or to hunt in a certain way (beyond safe and legal), or for whichever reason you wish to hunt. But I'll explain my approach to grouse hunting. Yes, I shoot a nice Spanish 20 ga side by side, but No I've never gone hunting in tweeds and tie. I've shot them with .22, 12 and 20 ga. I have worn out three pair of hunting boots and two pair of Columbia upland pants. I have also shot grouse on the ground and even killed one with a rock. But after close to 30 years (!!) of bird hunting, shooting grouse on the ground gives me no satisfaction whatsoever. Hunting them, though, is an entirely different matter, and at the end of the day I'm as happy to count flushes and shots as birds in the vest.
The whitetail deer is tough to stalk, as it has senses, camoflage, speed, agility, and brains on it's side. Bagging one takes skill and luck, and tests your shooting ability and nerve. Most are wary of humans and wily in their attempts to remain unseen where they can be hunted. Other animals provide these same challenges - ducks and geese have great eyesight, learn from experience, and are tough, fast birds. Moose live in areas where access is tough and the going hard. Very rarely are most game animals 'easy' in any sense of the word. However, the ruffed grouse is somewhat unique as a game animal. They often times seem to care nothing about whether they are being hunted by humans or not, it seems like they are sometimes more tame than farm animals. They get called 'stupid', and 'fools hen' for this behaviour, and treated like chicken fingers on legs. Other upland birds like pheasant or quail will hide more effectively from hunters than ruffed grouse. They'll walk away a little bit until they're kind of out of sight, but still well within gun range. They do not recognize humans as a predator, like a fox or coyote. Their first line of defense is to hold still, secure in their fantastic camoflage. If they are downwind of the predator, they feel even less threatened. They know that a fox or coyote will be somewhat hampered trying to rush them through the branches and thickets that they rely on for safety, so a few yards distance is a good safety factor for them. Their final defense is flight. And few birds can match this, save for woodcock. After exploding from cover, they seem to be able to fly through branches and leaves in a winding pattern that should break the wings of other birds. They will fly only just far enough to escape, then land within sight and take off running in a different direction. This defense mechanism has worked for them against natural predators. But against humans and guns, it is found lacking.
I said the ruffie was a unique game animal for just that reason. To kill a ruffed grouse is not hard. I've killed one with a rock. To find them is not hard (if they are around). They walk along roads and trails, and sit in trees watching us. It only take a few pellets to bring one down cleanly. A ruffed grouse on the ground presents all the challenge of a pop can. Anything from a .410 to 12 ga, or .22 to .300 WM can be used to take it, albeit with differing results.
But let it take flight, and you by surprise? Suddenly the bird transforms into a brown rocket, weaving through trees and branches and bushes. If you've managed to recover your composure and get away a shot, you most likely hit leaves and bark, if anything. Your heart is pounding, and the lack of bird in hand just leaves you wanting more of this action! "I'm gonna get that bird if it's the last thing I do!" And you may or may not. But that's why it's so addicting - the chase! The challenge! This becomes the great wingshooting test, hitting these birds in the air! But they are only a challenging game animal when they are in the air. And it is the HUNTER himself who makes this transformation in the bird, and he does it voluntarily. Without it there is no excitement, no thundering flush, no brown blur that defeats us. We allow it to defend itself by it's means, we play on his turf by his rules. If skeet were merely about breaking targets, we would set them on the ground and shoot them in place. The game is HOW we shoot them, not just to hit them.
We don't need to offer this gesture in order to make deer a challenge to hunt. But if you allow the ruffie this 'head start', it makes all the difference in the world. Now you realize the shortcomings in your firearm. A rifle becomes useless, of course, with a flying bird. And most shotguns aren't ideally suited either. If you do manage to connect, you know that only a few pellets are needed to bring it down. A Full 12 ga. load of #6 isn't necessary, but a big, wide pattern will kill very effectively. A bird flying away, getting hit with the pattern from Open Cylinder or IC at 15 yards or so, will have pellets in the back and wings, but few if any in the breast. This is why we have grouse guns; double barrels and Cylinder bores, 7-1/2 and #8 shot, light and fast handling, the gun is designed to the task and very specialized. A heavy, Full-choked pump may be great for geese, but here in tight bush it's almost useless. After a while, you want a lighter gun to carry longer. You realize you don't need 12 ga loads to kill, and that Full choke either misses too easily or hamburgers too effectively. A very fast second shot is needed, while a third is almost never utilized. You need a gun that you can move VERY quickly if you want a chance at connecting. Without a good grouse gun, your frustration will very soon overcome you. And most people leave it at that and take the easy way out.
Beyond that, you realize that this wingshooting thing takes PRACTICE! This little 'fools hen' is escaping from you without a scratch! "How the hell did he do that? I thought for sure I had him!" Well, yes, a fast moving target is hard to hit. Sooooo, you've got to shoot more. Skeet or sporting clays is great practice and you will develop skill with time. Whoever said that they don't like shooting more? Like with golf clubs, there are only a certain number of 'misses' in shotguns, and the more you shoot those 'misses' out of the gun, the better it will hit while hunting. But some people don't like to shoot their shotguns more to try to learn how to be a better shot. I guess they don't like shooting. Me, any excuse to shoot is a great excuse. Do rifle shooters wish to be accurate? Of course! They practise and shoot and get better and take pride in their ability. But a shotgun isn't a rifle, and they are different skills entirely. To hit a distant target with a single bullet takes some skill, to hit a close and stationary target with a shotgun takes none.
Quite a few of you 'get it' and look forward to this silly, often unproductive chase. But when you do connect with a ruffed grouse on afterburner, and drop it cleanly through the branches, after numerous flushes and many empty shotshells, you'll understand. After that you will treat them with the respect they deserve.
And all it takes is a simple, sportsmanlike gesture to your seemingly weaker opponent.
No one can force you to hunt, or to hunt in a certain way (beyond safe and legal), or for whichever reason you wish to hunt. But I'll explain my approach to grouse hunting. Yes, I shoot a nice Spanish 20 ga side by side, but No I've never gone hunting in tweeds and tie. I've shot them with .22, 12 and 20 ga. I have worn out three pair of hunting boots and two pair of Columbia upland pants. I have also shot grouse on the ground and even killed one with a rock. But after close to 30 years (!!) of bird hunting, shooting grouse on the ground gives me no satisfaction whatsoever. Hunting them, though, is an entirely different matter, and at the end of the day I'm as happy to count flushes and shots as birds in the vest.
The whitetail deer is tough to stalk, as it has senses, camoflage, speed, agility, and brains on it's side. Bagging one takes skill and luck, and tests your shooting ability and nerve. Most are wary of humans and wily in their attempts to remain unseen where they can be hunted. Other animals provide these same challenges - ducks and geese have great eyesight, learn from experience, and are tough, fast birds. Moose live in areas where access is tough and the going hard. Very rarely are most game animals 'easy' in any sense of the word. However, the ruffed grouse is somewhat unique as a game animal. They often times seem to care nothing about whether they are being hunted by humans or not, it seems like they are sometimes more tame than farm animals. They get called 'stupid', and 'fools hen' for this behaviour, and treated like chicken fingers on legs. Other upland birds like pheasant or quail will hide more effectively from hunters than ruffed grouse. They'll walk away a little bit until they're kind of out of sight, but still well within gun range. They do not recognize humans as a predator, like a fox or coyote. Their first line of defense is to hold still, secure in their fantastic camoflage. If they are downwind of the predator, they feel even less threatened. They know that a fox or coyote will be somewhat hampered trying to rush them through the branches and thickets that they rely on for safety, so a few yards distance is a good safety factor for them. Their final defense is flight. And few birds can match this, save for woodcock. After exploding from cover, they seem to be able to fly through branches and leaves in a winding pattern that should break the wings of other birds. They will fly only just far enough to escape, then land within sight and take off running in a different direction. This defense mechanism has worked for them against natural predators. But against humans and guns, it is found lacking.
I said the ruffie was a unique game animal for just that reason. To kill a ruffed grouse is not hard. I've killed one with a rock. To find them is not hard (if they are around). They walk along roads and trails, and sit in trees watching us. It only take a few pellets to bring one down cleanly. A ruffed grouse on the ground presents all the challenge of a pop can. Anything from a .410 to 12 ga, or .22 to .300 WM can be used to take it, albeit with differing results.
But let it take flight, and you by surprise? Suddenly the bird transforms into a brown rocket, weaving through trees and branches and bushes. If you've managed to recover your composure and get away a shot, you most likely hit leaves and bark, if anything. Your heart is pounding, and the lack of bird in hand just leaves you wanting more of this action! "I'm gonna get that bird if it's the last thing I do!" And you may or may not. But that's why it's so addicting - the chase! The challenge! This becomes the great wingshooting test, hitting these birds in the air! But they are only a challenging game animal when they are in the air. And it is the HUNTER himself who makes this transformation in the bird, and he does it voluntarily. Without it there is no excitement, no thundering flush, no brown blur that defeats us. We allow it to defend itself by it's means, we play on his turf by his rules. If skeet were merely about breaking targets, we would set them on the ground and shoot them in place. The game is HOW we shoot them, not just to hit them.
We don't need to offer this gesture in order to make deer a challenge to hunt. But if you allow the ruffie this 'head start', it makes all the difference in the world. Now you realize the shortcomings in your firearm. A rifle becomes useless, of course, with a flying bird. And most shotguns aren't ideally suited either. If you do manage to connect, you know that only a few pellets are needed to bring it down. A Full 12 ga. load of #6 isn't necessary, but a big, wide pattern will kill very effectively. A bird flying away, getting hit with the pattern from Open Cylinder or IC at 15 yards or so, will have pellets in the back and wings, but few if any in the breast. This is why we have grouse guns; double barrels and Cylinder bores, 7-1/2 and #8 shot, light and fast handling, the gun is designed to the task and very specialized. A heavy, Full-choked pump may be great for geese, but here in tight bush it's almost useless. After a while, you want a lighter gun to carry longer. You realize you don't need 12 ga loads to kill, and that Full choke either misses too easily or hamburgers too effectively. A very fast second shot is needed, while a third is almost never utilized. You need a gun that you can move VERY quickly if you want a chance at connecting. Without a good grouse gun, your frustration will very soon overcome you. And most people leave it at that and take the easy way out.
Beyond that, you realize that this wingshooting thing takes PRACTICE! This little 'fools hen' is escaping from you without a scratch! "How the hell did he do that? I thought for sure I had him!" Well, yes, a fast moving target is hard to hit. Sooooo, you've got to shoot more. Skeet or sporting clays is great practice and you will develop skill with time. Whoever said that they don't like shooting more? Like with golf clubs, there are only a certain number of 'misses' in shotguns, and the more you shoot those 'misses' out of the gun, the better it will hit while hunting. But some people don't like to shoot their shotguns more to try to learn how to be a better shot. I guess they don't like shooting. Me, any excuse to shoot is a great excuse. Do rifle shooters wish to be accurate? Of course! They practise and shoot and get better and take pride in their ability. But a shotgun isn't a rifle, and they are different skills entirely. To hit a distant target with a single bullet takes some skill, to hit a close and stationary target with a shotgun takes none.
Quite a few of you 'get it' and look forward to this silly, often unproductive chase. But when you do connect with a ruffed grouse on afterburner, and drop it cleanly through the branches, after numerous flushes and many empty shotshells, you'll understand. After that you will treat them with the respect they deserve.
And all it takes is a simple, sportsmanlike gesture to your seemingly weaker opponent.
MD said:
Yup they be Sprucies.
I'm up and around the Lake Cowichan/Cowichan valley area.
The back logging roads are full of them...from there to Shanigan lake.
I think there is more predators up in the Northern part of the Island.
Grouse Man said:
Fabulous answer!
That was worth the wait...
Of course i must confess that I will still nail a couple for dinner off the ground with the .22 from behind the seat of the truck if the opportunity presents itself -- but that's not hunting, it's dinner.
I only get the chance at maybe 5 ruffies a year, I take what I can get. When I hike miles and miles and only see one who decides today is the day to run along the ground I take him out. No worse than rabbit hunting, they move pretty quick on the ground and the crap that I hunt in you don't see them once they get about 5 feet off the ground. There is a reason they are the only game bird in Ontario you can hunt with a rifle.
david doyle said:
Up here in the NWT they're all "chickens". The ptarmigan is the favourite winter game bird. They're snow white in winter with a shading of grey under the wing and they basically have the IQ of a bag of chips, so, camouflage notwithstanding, it's pretty easy to bag a bunch for lunch! My favourite toy for such grocery getting is a 10-22 with a red dot scope. It shows real nice on that little white head!
Well,...... I don't actually go out and hunt for grouse, I just throw a shotgun or .22 in the truck and if I see one on my way to or from my hunting spots I will whack it.
To me a stupid grouse is a meal of opportunity.
Oh......I will whack a big game animal in it's bed too. If it's too lazy and sleeps in, he deserves it. Thats why I am in my hunting spots before first light.
To me a stupid grouse is a meal of opportunity.
Oh......I will whack a big game animal in it's bed too.
If it's too lazy and sleeps in, he deserves it. Thats why I am in my hunting spots before first light.
jjackman said:
See, some people may be interested in a more "sporting" hunt, so-to-say.
To each their own right?
Personally, I'm not going to pass up those tatsy fellers just cause they're walking!
"We don't hunt to kill......we kill in order to have hunted"
The hood of the Jeep is the furthest these guys got off the ground.
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I love nothing more than taking a grouse on the wing with my Labrador (soon to be 2 labs, one in training)
But in the end I love eating as much as I love hunting them, so I will shoot them where I see them. Grouse are far more spooky here than many other areas so I never give them a chance to skiddadle.
But in the end I love eating as much as I love hunting them, so I will shoot them where I see them. Grouse are far more spooky here than many other areas so I never give them a chance to skiddadle.
6mm Shooter
CGN Regular
- Location
- White City, SK
I give them a chance. The chance that I will miss there head at 350 yards with my 6mm.
Martin: Our ruffies out here aren't quite the same as your sneaky east-coast ruffies. Not many people hunt them in classic style, with dogs and shotguns, and so our ruffed grouse tend to be on the naive side (at least away from the population centers.) When I'm out with the lab away from the city, I normally fill a pocket full of gravel so that when they fly into a tree I can flush them. Generally you have to pop em on the head with a rock before they flush. They are, however, definitely ruffed grouse. They just don't have that east-coast education. And when I need dinner, I'll take the odd one sitting. Good year for grouse this year, while deer hunting I counted 25 flushes in half an hour.
