Grouse with a 12 gauge?

[Home3]

Let's agree there are two types of hunters (among others); those who mainly hunt for sports and those who mainly hunt for meat. Neither one is wrong.

I have passed numerous ruffed grouse on the ground and will continue to do that. That is right for me but doesn't have to be right for others.

 

[Rick]

One thing is quite apparent from reading this thread, that being that most people seem to have experience with only Ruffed Grouse, or possibly Spruce Grouse, which often behave similarly. Other people hunt Sharptailed Grouse which aren't nearly so tame, and are hunted in different terrain, using different methods.

We have blue, ruffies, spruce in this area of BC - our ample sharpie population was extirpated in the early 80's, but I had lots of practice hunting them as well locally before then.

The sharpies around Ledger where we do most of our hunting for them are tame enough to let you take all day walking up to the dogs on point so you can go in and kick them up at your leisure. They're a different bird later on in the year, when they often flush wild long before you get anywhere near them, but they can be as dumb as any other species of grouse. Back in the 70's, we used to walk the sagebrush flats along the river bottom, spot them by eye, and then simply walk up on them with our shotguns until they flushed and then shoot - we didn't have dogs. They weren't smart, but they didn't get hunted much, either.

Ruffies and spruce grouse are more of the same. They can be dumb road-sitters, and they can be elusive brush ninjas.

What's interesting to me is that the same species can act so very differently, sometimes in the same geographical location. Right now the ruffies around here are just sitting around on the roads, acting stupid. A nice opportunity to try out my new Browning Satin Lightening while the wife is away with the dogs at a NAVHDA test. Yet last year, you couldn't even begin to get close to them and they were gone, even with the dogs - and Laird is pretty damned stealthy and careful when he's got a nose full of grouse.

Why the difference? I'll be damned to hell if I know, but until pheasants and sharpies open up in Montana, ruffies are what the dogs are after when I'm not hunting elk and sheep.

 

[Rick]

Let's agree there are two types of hunters (among others); those who mainly hunt for sports and those who mainly hunt for meat. Neither one is wrong.

I have passed numerous ruffed grouse on the ground and will continue to do that. That is right for me but doesn't have to be right for others.

Be nice if everyone could agree on that. And perhaps drop the concept of "your style of hunting can't possibly be as challenging/sporting as mine".

 

[3macs1]

Be nice if everyone could agree on that. And perhaps drop the concept of "your style of hunting can't possibly be as challenging/sporting as mine".

99% of it is how you were raised. It is like FORD and CHEV My dad and grandfather were competitive target shooters thus any game birds also were shot on the wing and on the wing only.
You didnot even consider shooting a bird on the water or ground. I understood that fully when we had the dogs with us or decoys
Not sporting or ethical they would say..
Also we are not allowed to shoot spruce grouse here they are protected because they are so dumb and the thought process is to leave them in case a hunter gets lost and needs an easy meal.
Oh yes and as far as meat hunters get a dog and watch that increase 10 fold. You will be shocked how many birds you walk by alone. I am like others here now watching the dog work is what I enjoy, if we happen to get the odd bird that is a bonus
To each their own with this one.

 

[Rick]

99% of it is how you were raised.

Perhaps. I was raised not to assume that my way of hunting and fishing is better than the other guys'.

It is like FORD and CHEV My dad and grandfather were competitive target shooters thus any game birds also were shot on the wing and on the wing only.
You didnot even consider shooting a bird on the water or ground. I understood that fully when we had the dogs with us or decoys
Not sporting or ethical they would say..

Which would indicate they were apparently narrow minded and/or limited in the hunting experiences they had available to them. And apparently never were hungry with dinner sitting in front of them as well...

Given that you would be roughly of the same age as me, pushing 60 or thereabouts, our grandfathers would have lived through the Dirty Thirties. Probably your father as well as mine did. My paternal grandfather was a pretty fair wing shot, but I doubt very much he subscribed to the "you do not even consider shooting a bird on the water or ground" when the family's dinner was at stake during those times. I doubt anybody else's grandfather back then passed up a certain shot at a stationary bird for one on the wing either.

And somewhere, no doubt, is a hunter who's father and grandfather taught him it is unsporting to shoot birds with anything bigger than a 28 gauge, and that straightaway shots are not sporting either and so those birds must be passed up. Not sporting, they'd say...

In other words, there is always somebody that wants to make a grab for the moral/ethical high ground, when in this case there really isn't any high ground to begin with.

Oh yes and as far as meat hunters get a dog and watch that increase 10 fold. You will be shocked how many birds you walk by alone.

And what does the dog do the rest of the day while you're out hunting sheep or elk?

Most ditch dinner's get shot by guys in vehicles, going somewhere. Not by guys wandering around on foot, hoping they walk up on a bird.

I doubt I'll ever hunt birds without dogs again in this life, but shooting them on the ground along the road for a tasty supper simply makes sense. Having a dog in the truck with you when you do so isn't going to improve your chances one iota.

To each their own with this one.

Exactly. No matter what somebody else's Dad and Grandad thought...

 

[3macs1]

Perhaps. I was raised not to assume that my way of hunting and fishing is better than the other guys'.


Which would indicate they were apparently narrow minded and/or limited in the hunting experiences they had available to them. And apparently never were hungry with dinner sitting in front of them as well...

Given that you would be roughly of the same age as me, pushing 60 or thereabouts, our grandfathers would have lived through the Dirty Thirties. Probably your father as well as mine did. My paternal grandfather was a pretty fair wing shot, but I doubt very much he subscribed to the "you do not even consider shooting a bird on the water or ground" when the family's dinner was at stake during those times. I doubt anybody else's grandfather back then passed up a certain shot at a stationary bird for one on the wing either.

And somewhere, no doubt, is a hunter who's father and grandfather taught him it is unsporting to shoot birds with anything bigger than a 28 gauge, and that straightaway shots are not sporting either and so those birds must be passed up. Not sporting, they'd say...

In other words, there is always somebody that wants to make a grab for the moral/ethical high ground, when in this case there really isn't any high ground to begin with.


And what does the dog do the rest of the day while you're out hunting sheep or elk?

Most ditch dinner's get shot by guys in vehicles, going somewhere. Not by guys wandering around on foot, hoping they walk up on a bird.

I doubt I'll ever hunt birds without dogs again in this life, but shooting them on the ground along the road for a tasty supper simply makes sense. Having a dog in the truck with you when you do so isn't going to improve your chances one iota.


Exactly. No matter what somebody else's Dad and Grandad thought...

No where did I say one way is better than the other. We didnot require game birds to feed the family they had a farm and raised 99% of their meat but we are comparing apples and oranges here.
We do not have the big game opportunites you do. There is no elk or sheep and a draw for moose which I have not got a tag in over 25 years trying. Buck only on white tail one per year if you are real lucky
From what I remember they hunted more for sport when it came to birds than meat other than geese maybe ,those they ususlly were after a feed..
On the 28ga that is exactly what they used and I still have my grandfathers model 12 and my dad's wingmaster.
And guess what I use upland 28ga other than the 16 the odd time. So Like I say I still think 99% is how you were raised and what part of the country. Nothing wrong with either opinion or method just strange to me to hear about guys ground swatting birds. One thing I know for sure is there are some states in the US where you will be charged for shooting birds on the water.
What do my Britts do the rest of the day. Relax downstairs on their sofa.LOL

Take care

 

[catnthehatt]

I never even considered shooting any bird on the ground, were were raised with flushing labs and shotguns.
Wen I left home and went onto a trapline, I bought a 22LR , and that was my main rifle for everyday carry.
I shot lots of birds with it out of the trees and on the ground for dinner.
However, when I was in town, it was a shotgun and flying birds.
I hunt for recreation ad the enjoyment of watching my son's GSP point birds and to shoot them o the wing.

I don't care if people shoot them with shotguns on the ground or with rifles either, just not when we are hunting with dogs, that is not the point of the hunt .
Cat

 

[Rick]

I don't care if people shoot them with shotguns on the ground or with rifles either, just not when we are hunting with dogs, that is not the point of the hunt .
Cat

Yep, exactly. Kind of reduces it to "Why did we spend all that time training the dog instead of just rubbing his belly and throwing sticks for him? And what's he here for anyways?".

Now, speaking of grouse hunting with 12 gauges... this new shotgun JUST arrived at my door:

Browning Satin Lightening, 12 gauge, 28" bbls, oiled finish, Invector chokes.

Not quite as nice as Dad's Superposed it is replacing, although side by side they look very similar at first glance. Bit of a thread on that here last year, but basically I wanted shorter barrels for upland and something other than full/modified that meant more open pattern results had to be achieved by reload manipulation. And, for those who didn't think I should sell Dad's Superposed... relax, it's going to my brother whose Chessie puppie just got home from three months of doggie college on how to work as an imitation flushing spaniel... a 120 lb flushing spaniel... hah. Actually, watching video of him working wild birds at the trainer's ranch in south Montana, he does a pretty good job for a really young dog. We have yet to figure out how we're going to work THAT in with our pointing Griffons...

But anyways... here I am with a brand new 12 gauge shotgun in hand, no dogs (the Griffs are off at a NAVHDA test, where Laird just got himself a UT Prize II result, not too shabby for a dog a bit flat from having just completed a long regime of antibiotics). But grouse season is open and I have a bit of time before I take off.

So... I guess I am going to go grab a box of 12 gauge 1 oz #6's from the reloading bench, stick a cylinder and IC chokes in the thing, jump in the truck, and spend an hour seeing if I can go find some fool hen's standing along the side of the road. And then, if I they don't blow away at the mere sight of the truck, or conversely, refuse to fly no further than a branch just above my head, we'll see how THIS 12 gauge works on grouse... But I promise I won't ground sluice them.

News at Eleven... maybe... I do know that the fit to me is noticeably different than the Superposed.

 

[straightshooter]

We have blue, ruffies, spruce in this area of BC - our ample sharpie population was extirpated in the early 80's, but I had lots of practice hunting them as well locally before then.

The sharpies around Ledger where we do most of our hunting for them are tame enough to let you take all day walking up to the dogs on point so you can go in and kick them up at your leisure. They're a different bird later on in the year, when they often flush wild long before you get anywhere near them, but they can be as dumb as any other species of grouse. Back in the 70's, we used to walk the sagebrush flats along the river bottom, spot them by eye, and then simply walk up on them with our shotguns until they flushed and then shoot - we didn't have dogs. They weren't smart, but they didn't get hunted much, either.
Ruffies and spruce grouse are more of the same. They can be dumb road-sitters, and they can be elusive brush ninjas.

What's interesting to me is that the same species can act so very differently, sometimes in the same geographical location. Right now the ruffies around here are just sitting around on the roads, acting stupid. A nice opportunity to try out my new Browning Satin Lightening while the wife is away with the dogs at a NAVHDA test. Yet last year, you couldn't even begin to get close to them and they were gone, even with the dogs - and Laird is pretty damned stealthy and careful when he's got a nose full of grouse.

Why the difference? I'll be damned to hell if I know, but until pheasants and sharpies open up in Montana, ruffies are what the dogs are after when I'm not hunting elk and sheep.

IMO Rick, the bolded line is your answer. My hunting partner and I have been hunting the same grouse bush for well over 15 years. When we first hunted the area, we found birds on the ground all the time. Over the years, natural selection has allowed us to knock off most of the grouse that tried to remain unseen on the ground. Each successive generation has become more and more skittish to the point where now you either shoot them on the wing, or pop them out of trees. (The preceding applies only to the ruffed grouse in our zone.)

I think bird behaviour is dictated primarily by the type of predation in the area. Coyotes sometimes work in teams, converging on a bird from both sides. I suspect this is why 2 hunters walking in the same direction, 25 to 50 yards apart, will often scare up any birds that find themselves in the middle.