GSh-18 Ugly and lovely as it is

TDC said:
Another Glock look alike wanna be. Interesting nonetheless.

TDC
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Yeah, this time its a look alike which shares virtually no aesthetic features of the Glock pistols, wow, what an age we live in when someone can make something entirely different looking whilst still making a "look alike wanna be" :rolleyes:

Too each his own, but, seriously? other than a polymer frame (which in this case doesn't look like a Glock frame) how does this thing look like a Glock?
 
IM_Lugger said:
Yes I was serious, again I've never heard of any owners complaning. but this is not a thread for PX4 so I'll just leave it at that.
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Ask yourself this...what agency just adopted the PX4, and exactly how many QC and reliability problems does it take to make it worth starting a whole new competition process? Because the people who were responsible for the training on that platform found it so unreliable they wanted it scrapped.

They don't run, bottom line. Or rather, they run for a bit, then lock up so hard that they can't be cleared without a hammer. Literally.

That is not to say that nobody can EVER make a rotating barrel design work. Maybe this gun is going to be great. But generally speaking, most rotating barrel handguns have had issues. The K100 may be an exception but they've never really made it in to the mainstream so it's difficult to say...I can't think of any large scale testing of the K100 that has ever been done but that doesn't mean it's never happened. I have never heard of it, though.

The PX4, on the other hand, has been tested. It doesn't work.
 
Leigh said:
Yeah, this time its a look alike which shares virtually no aesthetic features of the Glock pistols, wow, what an age we live in when someone can make something entirely different looking whilst still making a "look alike wanna be" :rolleyes:

Too each his own, but, seriously? other than a polymer frame (which in this case doesn't look like a Glock frame) how does this thing look like a Glock?
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Lets see,

Polymer frame
Low bore axis
Squarish slide style
Trigger mounted safety
Striker fired

Yeah, you're right. Nothing remotely Glock like there. I guess the absence of the light rail makes it a completely different animal. For the record, the rotating barrel action is a failure as is the absence of the light rail.

TDC
 
Polymer frame
Low bore axis
Squarish slide style
Trigger mounted safety
Striker fired
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lol and glock has a barrel, trigger, sights, slide release. Clearly they are copying a 1911 :D

Those features became generic in hangun design long time ago.
 
I have to call BS on the Px4 being junk. Beretta has been making guns with rotating barrel for about 20 years now, and Px4 is just an updated Cougar. Again I've never heard about any issues with them. Are you refering to CBSA? Do you work for them? how many rounds have you put thru the Px4? If they were that bad how did they ever passed the required tests? Every company makes a lemon once in a while but I dont believe that makes a entire line crap.
 
Call it as you like, no skin off my back. I can't speak to what you have or haven't heard about the Cougar or the PX4, only what their known issues are.

I definitely do not work for CBSA.

I have not shot a PX4 very much...the only thing that was immediately apparent when I shot it was the poor trigger. It did not lock up in the few dozen rounds I put through it.

But I can tell you this: they frequently lock up and you will not get one apart without a hammer. You're free to think that I'm making this up, of course...again not something that is likely to generate issues for me. But I am not sure what I would stand to gain from saying something which is now well known in shooting circles.

I would recommend, rather than saying, "I haven't heard of this, so it is therefore BS" that a good approach would be to research the gun itself - and by "research the gun" I don't mean "go to THR and read twenty guys who say, 'I have one, it's great'".

Consider what high-volume shooters are saying, and what people immersed in the high-volume shooting world are saying. You notice issues a lot faster if your idea of "had this gun for a year" is "shot forty thousand rounds through this gun".
 
I'll definately look into them more, thats why I was asking what agency you're refering to. I'm no newb to hanguns and awear of most issues when it comes to handguns and simply never heard of these problems.
 
Thanks for hijacking the thread ;)

GSh-18 issued to Russian special forces... I haven't heard any bad stories about the gun. One of the most discussed features of the GSh-18 is a slide that is open at the front. Critics said that the dirt will easily go into the slide interior via this opening and pistol reliability will be decreased at least. Designers said that it is OK and dirt will not pass deep into the gun interior. Probably designers have all the reasons to say so, because GSh-18 successfully passed rigorous military trials. GSh-18 can fire any commercial or military 9mm Luger/Parabellum and 9mm NATO ammunition, plus Russian armour-piercing, high-power (roughly equivalent to 9mm +P+ or even hotter) ammunition, 9mm 7N21 and 9mm PBP. GSh-18 is reported as accurate and comfortable to fire, and very light for its class.
 
I heard that the round is much much much hotter then regular +p+ loads. I read somewhere on the net or I believe I watched a video were is claimed that it shoots rounds at 2000fps, I also remember reading that Spetznaz (or other special units) have used this gun in the N.Caucasus, so it is combat proven.
 
Tea Pot.. you have to bring them in.. maybe a small batch if not to many people interested. Although i do think they will sell super fast.
What is the minimum amount they would produce for Canada..?
 
IM_Lugger said:
lol and glock has a barrel, trigger, sights, slide release. Clearly they are copying a 1911 :D

Those features became generic in hangun design long time ago.
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I'm sorry, could you list the other firearms that aren't a blatant attempt at copying a Glock that have Polymer frames, trigger mounted safeties, striker fired, square slides, and strive for very low bore axis? Oh hold on, here's another pair of wannabe's

The PX4 sports a near identical slide/frame appearance and the take down is well, identical.
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/it/beretta-px4-storm-e.html

And here's Beretta's newest attempt at being Glock, the Nano. Nothing remotely Glock looking on this design. Especially considering Beretta's classic exposed barrel design which they've been running for many years is oddly absent.

http://www.berettanano.com/

IM_Lugger said:
I have to call BS on the Px4 being junk. Beretta has been making guns with rotating barrel for about 20 years now, and Px4 is just an updated Cougar. Again I've never heard about any issues with them. Are you refering to CBSA? Do you work for them? how many rounds have you put thru the Px4? If they were that bad how did they ever passed the required tests? Every company makes a lemon once in a while but I dont believe that makes a entire line crap.
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I believe IMLuger that you used to own and run Beretta pistols? I also believe that Slavex used to be sponsored by Beretta. Oddly enough, both of you now own Glocks and Slavex doesn't own any Beretta's(to the best of my knowledge). As the oldest firearms manufacturer in the world, Beretta now holds the smallest share of the Mil/LE market. That doesn't sound like positive news for being the most "experienced" company in the game.

As for failures of the PX4, here's a "BS" link

http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2011/04/15/smith-wesson-taking-more-of-le-market/

Check out this completely honest and ethical marketing campaign by Beretta
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_194_32/ai_n25469382/

TDC
 
Dmitri said:
Tea Pot.. you have to bring them in.. maybe a small batch if not to many people interested. Although i do think they will sell super fast.
What is the minimum amount they would produce for Canada..?
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+2 :(, please, please Teapod bring them in :redface:
 
I believe IMLuger that you used to own and run Beretta pistols? I also believe that Slavex used to be sponsored by Beretta. Oddly enough, both of you now own Glocks and Slavex doesn't own any Beretta's(to the best of my knowledge). As the oldest firearms manufacturer in the world, Beretta now holds the smallest share of the Mil/LE market. That doesn't sound like positive news for being the most "experienced" company in the game
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I will always have at least one Beretta ;) Yes, I do have a couple of Glocks among other guns. What can I say I like to gain experience with as many platforms as I can.

The only thing Px4 has remotly similar to a Glock are the takedown levers. They are completely different guns in every other way, unless you consider polymer frame 'a blatant attempt at copying a Glock'.

Nano is kinda ugly so I guess it does look like a glock after all.

You're acting like Glock invented a first handgun ever! They all borrow ideas from other designs. Glock wasn't even the first polymer framed or striker fired handgun. There were also guns with low bore axis and steep grip angle, so doesn't that make it a copy too?
 
IM_Lugger said:
I will always have at least one Beretta ;) Yes, I do have a couple of Glocks among other guns. What can I say I like to gain experience with as many platforms as I can.

The only thing Px4 has remotly similar to a Glock are the takedown levers. They are completely different guns in every other way, unless you consider polymer frame 'a blatant attempt at copying a Glock'.

Nano is kinda ugly so I guess it does look like a glock after all.

You're acting like Glock invented a first handgun ever! They all borrow ideas from other designs. Glock wasn't even the first polymer framed or striker fired handgun. There were also guns with low bore axis and steep grip angle, so doesn't that make it a copy too?
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Valid points however, Glock popularized the polymer frame when all the others in the industry(with the exception of HK) and the masses poo poo'd the idea. Now everyone and their dog offers a polymer gun. If it was such a bad idea, why the FOLLOWING by the rest of the industry?

Experiencing different makes/models is great, but the fundamentals don't change. If it functions like sh*t, has missing or sh*t features, why keep it?

TDC
 
well you can find the views about this pistol from very good to, on other extreme , very bad. but i would rather say this must be having some potential as after all , its russian. to my knowledge, it is designed by an outstanding designer who has earned the crowds of respects for his fighter jet canons / guns designed by him. the pistol engineering and canon engineering are poles apart , even than i regars this pistol as a " FIGHTER JET CANON IN HANDS "
 
Valid points however, Glock popularized the polymer frame when all the others in the industry(with the exception of HK) and the masses poo poo'd the idea. Now everyone and their dog offers a polymer gun. If it was such a bad idea, why the FOLLOWING by the rest of the industry?

Experiencing different makes/models is great, but the fundamentals don't change. If it functions like sh*t, has missing or sh*t features, why keep it?

TDC
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Yes Glock did make plastic guns popular, true, because they are the only gun maker that only ever make plastic guns (as far as I know) they stuck with it and with the right dedication and marketing they sucseeded. When you can make a decent gun for less money than the completition you will get market share -no majic there! But they did start to make SF models and came out with gen4, because they realised that one gun doesn't fit all and everyone was making guns with adjustable grips, so you can say they coppied other companies. Im glad they did because their .45s and 10mm models were bricks and kinda overdone gen3 with the finger groves and texure. I have 29SF and gen4 G22 -both huge improvements!

I dont keep any guns that are s**t, I have a few guns just for poops and giggles that are expendable, but all my Berettas have been extremely reliable and great shooters.
 
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IM_Lugger said:
Yes Glock did make plastic guns popular, true, because they are the only gun maker that only ever make plastic guns (as far as I know) they stuck with it and with the right dedication and marketing they sucseeded. When you can make a decent gun for less money than the completition you will get market share -no majic there! But they did start to make SF models and came out with gen4, because they realised that one gun doesn't fit all and everyone was making guns with adjustable grips, so you can say they coppied other companies. Im glad they did because their .45s and 10mm models were bricks and kinda overdone gen3 with the finger groves and texure. I have 29SF and gen4 G22 -both huge improvements!

I dont keep any guns that are s**t, I have a few guns just for poops and giggles that are expendable, but my all Berettas have been extremely reliable and great shooters.
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To be honest, I was disappointed with Glock's decision to offer interchangeable grips. That decision was solely marketing based and geared towards the civilian market. There's no doubt the large frame Glocks are beefy, hence their LARGE FRAME designation. The reality is that there's no need for either .45ACP or 10mm in the LE or civilian CCW market. 10mm is a fantastic cartridge for handgun hunting but that's a niche market and not one Glock aggressively pursues.

TDC
 
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