yes that's why when one on a Beretta is replaced it only costs $30 for the block, where as on a Glock you have to replace the whole barrel, which costs considerably more than the Beretta locking block. Speaking of the block though, can you provide some sources for your "quite frequently" or "notorious" statements? because strangely enough I can't find anything, even on Glock talk to support them.
Guelph police switch to Glock 22
- Thread starter DBeato
- Start date
yes that's why when one on a Beretta is replaced it only costs $30 for the block, where as on a Glock you have to replace the whole barrel, which costs considerably more than the Beretta locking block. Speaking of the block though, can you provide some sources for your "quite frequently" or "notorious" statements? because strangely enough I can't find anything, even on Glock talk to support them.
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
They don't shear off, they crack. If you pay attention to your equipment when you are doing PM you will see this and take care of the issue. If you change springs on a routine basis this no longer occurs when using the new iteration of the locking block (not "lock" block) as the corners are now radiused and not cut square.
The Beretta is a great pistol, better in 9 than in .40, and not a pistol for NDP's (non-dedicated personnel) and the majority of LEO's are. I would refer to the Beretta as more of a thoroughbred than the Glock...
And before I get slammed for calling anyone no-dedicated, I am referring to their usage of firearms, not their dedication to the job.
PO will make out pretty well - the markup on Glocks is pretty huge. I saw a US Fed procurement for G22/23 and IIRC they were around $325 USD at the time with NS and 3 mags.
JMNSHO
blake
Last edited:
Yep, what Blake said.
The problem is with the 1st gen locking block. All Beretta's issued in Ont DID NOT HAVE THESE. I like the Beretta, I've had a 96D since 1994 and put thousands of rounds down range without a problem. I've shot the Glock and actually prefer the trigger on it to my DAO Beretta becuse it is much shorter and has a reset.
But the Glock is far from perfect, talk to Stratford PD. When they switched over to Glock, they had to be sent back because the one piece barrel was chipping. Stuff can happen to any man made machine,even a Glock.
That would be the key, WHEN they're replaced. I haven't heard of anyone replacing the barrel in their Glock due to lug failure. Then again, I've never heard of a Beretta eating close to a half million rounds on original parts. Feel free to check in with Redleg from TSE and ask him how many Beretta locking blocks he's replaced.
I hate to start a debate, but the Beretta is a piece of sh*t. 64 pieces to accomplish the same task that a Glock with 35 pieces seems to do well. Sounds like buying more crap than is really needed. The locking block issue, the slide separation issue, the exposed transfer bar and exposed barrel, excessive bulk and weight, horrible DA trigger pull, are but a few reasons why Beretta is an inferior product. I find it odd that Beretta being one of the oldest firearms manufacturers is no longer considered a major player in the LE market in North America. What's even more entertaining is their shift to polymer framed pistols and their sub-compact offerings.
Hey Slavex, weren't you sponsored by Beretta at one time? I thought you sent a couple guns back with terminally cracked frames and no longer shoot Beretta products?
TDC
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Whether you love it or hate, the Glock is the king of LE pistols in North America, and that is for good reason, it is a KISS product, point and shoot, and it has proven itself as the most reliable pistol for this application.
handgunner
CGN Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
...and the magazines for the same caliber will work in both the full, compact and sub compact versions. Not a big deal on the firing line, but on the street could make a difference. Good for Guelph for stepping up to the plate.
My question is: How does the S&W MP 9/40 compare to the Glock line? Our PD (Peel Region) are switching out their older S&W 5### series pistols for the MP. I noticed one PC with a new one the other day.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
The Edmonton Police just had all 1500 of their G-22's replaced free of charge from Glock. Something to do with frame and frame rail cracking issues that became a danger to officer safety.
Glocks are damn fine pistols but they aren't the indestructible tools everyone seems to make them out to be.
What type of experience are you basing your opinions on?
Beretta, like Sig , Glock and many others have there strong and weak points. I’ve read about many a Kabom with the Glock 22 and previously mentioned different Canadian dept’s had to send them back because of locking block and other problems. When Dept’s in Ont. first switched to the P229, several had to be sent back due to broken frames and slides. My Beretta has severed me well for 14yrs and thousands of rounds without a hitch. Many dept's are switching due to the age of the pistol and the fact that they are no longer made, and up until Oct they can be traded in. After Oct they will be destroyed.
As per Peel going to the MP, I've been unimpressed, they would have been better with a Glock.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Further to that, when the Ontario MNR bought the .40USP, all of them had to go back to HK for major issues, it happens to all of them.
Slavex, you know this story. Our PD issued approx. 160 96D's and Centurion from 1994-2000. I experienced 11 documented locking block failures (cracked AND sheared), 3 cracked/bulged chambers, and a few other minor problems. We now have approx. 240 Glock 22,23, and 27's. I have seen Glock's lose rails, cracked the slide on mine at 33,000 rounds, and other minor issues (broken pins etc...). The biggest difference between the two is that the Glock's continue to work even after they are broken. I have yet to see a failure that renders a Glock inoperable. I've seen broken Beretta's, Glock's, SIG's
, M&P's, and revolvers, they all break with use, some sooner than others. Overall, I was never crazy about the 96D, but I never felt at a disadvantage with it. In the end, Beretta's tragic customer service is what caused us to switch. And we got a helluva lot more than $125 a piece for them I guess the US military must be stupid, because they bought a few thousand more "inferior" pistols instead of the Glock.
The US mil contract for Beretta's was not won on merit. The sweet deal that Beretta offered the gov't and some dirty dealings sealed that deal. If you do a little research the US Army demanded a pistol with second strike capability. A feature that is completely f*cking useless but nevertheless that was their criteria. That alone made the Glock a non contender. SIG won the trials with little issue. The initial contract in 1985 was for 320,000 pistols to be manufactured at the new Accokeek Maryland facility. The fact that the Marines ignored the pistol, and anyone with the opportunity to run something else did. Tends to fly in the face of what being "awarded" the contract implies.
As far as .40cal Glocks go. I would never buy one. I would never buy a 40 in the first place. The perceived "stopping power" advantage of the 40 over anything else is simply that, perceived. An increase in energy with the use of basic physics equations and a little trial and error looks good on paper. It does not however translate into increased skill no matter how you cut the numbers. Its not about what you shoot, its about where you shoot.
The only 40 cal gun I would run with confidence of not having a catastrophic failure somewhere in its life, would be the new SIG series pistols with the single piece machined slides. The 40 cal Glocks are known for having problems, CPS has apparently traded in many of theirs as well due to failures. Then again, when Glock beats Smith & Wesson to production of a 40 cal pistol for which they designed the cartridge. Its no wonder it isn't as reliable as the rest of the herd.
NAA has had zero issues with his Glock 22 and he's put a good number through it. Did he get a lucky one, or is his better built than many of the earlier copies of which so many horror stories were born. I don't know.
As was posted above, all mechanical devices fail, even knives and pry bars and they have zero moving parts(fixed blade knives I mean). The ability to use and abuse a tool for a significant period of time before failure is what earns merit. Simplicity and ease of use are often viewed as just as important. Any product that can excel in all three areas is sure to be a success.
Firearms are tools, they break. Some more often than others, buy a new one.
TDC
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Actually, the main reason Beretta wont he US contract was because they were the only non US maker willing to build a plant in the US which is what US regulations for purchase call for and there were not American made products that made the cut during the trials.
US army went with the 92's because it passed the test and other requirmants the army had. I find it funny how people come up with all the different reasons and of course they're all different. (fwiw I would want a DA/SA as well if I had to pick a gun for combat).
Why did the seals go with the Sig, can't say I know, but I bet Sig was pretty anxous to sell some guns after they lost the Army contract, wouldn't be surprsed if they gave them a hell of a deal.
(fwiw I would want a DA/SA as well if I had to pick a gun for combat).Why did the seals go with the Sig, can't say I know, but I bet Sig was pretty anxous to sell some guns after they lost the Army contract, wouldn't be surprsed if they gave them a hell of a deal.
