Guided Hunt Stigma.

Having been a guide/outfitter, and hunting shoulder to shoulder with dozens of clients of various levels of ability and experience, I can tell you that there is a commonality in one of the ESSENTIAL elements of a successful hunter... that is the sequence of events that lead up to and during the "moment of truth." A quality successful hunter is a different creature from someone who just "wants to be" a successful hunter... it is not as simple as experience... some people simply have an ability to remain calm and perform under extreme pressure and excitement... some don't, many of those that don't will never learn this ability... that is not to say they can't be successful to some degree and enjoy the outdoors, but they are unlikely to be prolific. I have a great deal of respect for a hunter who demonstrates the drive to initiate a hunt, guided or DIY, and then either be successful in the moment of truth or be satisfied and fulfilled by the experience.

As an extreme example of what I am talking about, I guided a gentleman on a bear hunt who had never hunted in his life, he had never shot so much as a grouse, but he had wished to hunt for a great while and was excited to finally be doing it... you can imagine his heightened level of excitement. When the time came for the shot, he made a perfect shot @ 225 yards, tight behind the shoulder, center body. I was watching the bears reaction through binoculars and knew it was an excellent and fatal shot, but the bear burst to its feet and tried to run up an embankment, the second shot squared the bear between the shoulders again through the breadbasket, and a third shot followed quickly to the same spot, three perfect shots, two on a rapidly moving target at 225 yards during the anxiety of the moment of truth. This was special, and this gentleman went on to be a proflic hunter... each time, performing at a high level. To my mind, this deserves respect.
 
It seems many are forgetting that going on an unguided hunt for many species isn't an option. Hunting doesn't begin and end with black bear or deer in Ontario.

How would someone from NB do a DIY cougar hunt in BC? Lion in Africa? Stag in Scotland?
And yes, 99% is jealousy and ignorance.
 
MiG25 said:
I have no problem with guided hunts. But consider this:

Guy #1 gets a full curl ram in a GOS by himself or with a partner after hiking in with their camp on their back.

Guy #2 pays a quarter mil and has a team of guides and is hunting on a former mine property and takes a giant ram.

Which one of this guys do you want to have a beer with and hear about the hunt?
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Both! Guy #1, I would listen to,all day long and I'd buy the beer. Guy #2,I'd let him talk until he was blue in the face....as long as he was buying the beer. There's a whole world of difference between a "canned" hunt and a guided hunt. I have ZERO respect for the guy that hunts a high fence cannery,so,he can brag to what a great hunter he is. That,to me,is like the low life that shoots a deer at the zoo.
 
I'm, 61 years old and for as long as I can remember I've wanted to take my buddy on a guided Alaska moose hunt, I've been putting pennies away for years in my special little fund for this. No way am I a rich fat guy, but I'm getting old and I am confident I will have the cash in hand to take both of us on this hunt within the next few years, and I can tell you I have no qualms at all about hiring a guide and don't feel one bit of anything but anticipation. No stigma here, there is no other way I could do it and no other way I'd want to do it and expect to get a decent chance on a decent bull.
Many people want to hunt outside of their home ground for species that might not be available to them at home and guided hunts are probably the safest and surest ways to have a quality experience for the first timer. Can't hold it against a fella because he's got a few bucks and gets to do it more often than once and certainly can't hold it against the fella who saved up and planned for his once in a lifetime experience.
 
daveyn said:
I'm, 61 years old and for as long as I can remember I've wanted to take my buddy on a guided Alaska moose hunt, I've been putting pennies away for years in my special little fund for this. No way am I a rich fat guy, but I'm getting old and I am confident I will have the cash in hand to take both of us on this hunt within the next few years, and I can tell you I have no qualms at all about hiring a guide and don't feel one bit of anything but anticipation. No stigma here, there is no other way I could do it and no other way I'd want to do it and expect to get a decent chance on a decent bull.
Many people want to hunt outside of their home ground for species that might not be available to them at home and guided hunts are probably the safest and surest ways to have a quality experience for the first timer. Can't hold it against a fella because he's got a few bucks and gets to do it more often than once and certainly can't hold it against the fella who saved up and planned for his once in a lifetime experience.
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Right on, well stated. When you finally get to your dream hunt I hope it’s an amazing experience. I’m saving for my lifetime dream fishing trip. Great Bear Lake for big Lakers with a side trip to the Tree River for Arctic Char.
 
Lots of opinions here, as always, but I'm seeing the general trend is a positive attitude towards guided hunts. I have done hundreds of DIY hunts for sheep, caribou, moose, grizzly, blackies and goats.....which about covers the available game in the Yukon, through my hard hunting years. For several of these years I "tagged out" as they say, meaning I was able to use every tag I could buy in that year..........1 moose, 2 caribou, 2 blackbear, 1 grizzly, 1 sheep and one goat. I can say that a lot of these hunts hold a lot of special memories, but so do a lot of my guided hunts.

I have also guided many friends for certain animals that they wouldn't generally have any idea how to go about it. I have taken many friends for their first sheep, something I am very good at is backpack sheep hunting. Goat has always been with another experienced goat hunter, there just aren't that many guys around who want to hunt goats......don't really blame them.

Have successfully guided a couple guys to decent moose, a couple cousins as guest hunters to the Yukon for a couple monster caribou, both making Boone and Crockett........and I don't even have a B&C caribou on my wall. I of course have never received a nickel for my guiding, nor would I accept it if offered, I just love to hunt and to see others get their first sheep, moose, whatever.
Most of the guides/PHs I have hunted with were of the same mind. Of course they were getting paid but they still loved to hunt and every one would go above and beyond when they realize they actually have a true hunter and accomplished shooter for a client.

One of the greatest compliments I have ever received happened in Zim on my first hunt in Africa. I had made several really good and long shots for over there (about 350 mtrs) and we had had a few "betcha can't hit that" sessions to which I had been able to quiet my PH every time. I was shooting a 300 WM with 180 Parts in a Sako L61R with a Leupold 2.5-8 Vari X III, which had just come on the market that year. Anyway, we had been goose and duck shooting at a dam and my one Egyptian goose landed right smack in the middle of the dam. The water was only about 4 feet deep, in the deepest part, but the tracker wasn't too keen on fetching my goose. He had no problem around the periphery of the dam in a couple feet of water, but that goose was 50 mtrs out and he wasn't real gung ho to go get it. I asked the PH what the problem was and he said they didn't know if there were "flatdogs" in that dam or not and my tracker wasn't that interested in finding out for sure. Quite a heated discussion ensued in Chalapalapa and finally they went quiet. So I again asked my PH what was up and he said Slice (my tracker) flat refused to go fetch the goose.......and would only go if I would give my word that I would stand at the edge of the dam with my rifle loaded and guard him against any flatdogs that may stalk him. That was probably some of the greatest praise I had ever been given for my shooting ability and I'll never forget that day or that hunt.
 
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There are two types of guided hunts with a lot of grey area in between.
I have a close family member whose house is filled with African game heads. These were all technically free ish range, but were shot in South Africa over one of very few water holes. These were the quintessential the oilman hunts. To me, this is no accomplishment. I personally do not hold these animals with any reverence even though they are quite good looking. There was no adventure to these hunts and are only a way to show how wealthy he is.
On the other hand, there are guided hunts that are equally as strenuous as any diy hunt. These men are worthy of respect and deserve an interested ear.

If one hoods their nose up at a guided hunter, it is likely because of the hunters attitude. Just like there are very wealthy people who purchase items only to show off their wealth, hunters who hunt to show up others won't be respected.
 
c-fbmi said:
Lots of opinions here, as always, but I'm seeing the general trend is a positive attitude towards guided hunts. I have done hundreds of DIY hunts for sheep, caribou, moose, grizzly, blackies and goats.....which about covers the available game in the Yukon, through my hard hunting years. For several of these years I "tagged out" as they say, meaning I was able to use every tag I could buy in that year..........1 moose, 2 caribou, 2 blackbear, 1 grizzly, 1 sheep and one goat. I can say that a lot of these hunts hold a lot of special memories, but so do a lot of my guided hunts.

I have also guided many friends for certain animals that they wouldn't generally have any idea how to go about it. I have taken many friends for their first sheep, something I am very good at is backpack sheep hunting. Goat has always been with another experienced goat hunter, there just aren't that many guys around who want to hunt goats......don't really blame them.

Have successfully guided a couple guys to decent moose, a couple cousins as guest hunters to the Yukon for a couple monster caribou, both making Boone and Crockett........and I don't even have a B&C caribou on my wall. I of course have never received a nickel for my guiding, nor would I accept it if offered, I just love to hunt and to see others get their first sheep, moose, whatever.
Most of the guides/PHs I have hunted with were of the same mind. Of course they were getting paid but they still loved to hunt and every one would go above and beyond when they realize they actually have a true hunter and accomplished shooter for a client.
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That's exactly what i said on my previous post, a guided hunt facilitates the life of the hunter but by no means it's unethical or should be looked with disdain in my view .
You Sir you facilitated the life of your two cousins, should it be a less of a hunt for them.....not at all.
 
Africa is a bucket list item. Paying the cash, i want the experience, but no stress. Being pampered would be wildgame backstraps over a fire.

Local, i hunt the same areas for years. This last year, my local areas went up in the bc wildfires. Scouting now that i live much further is not going to happen.....hit n miss.
 
Freire..........Let me tell you they worked their bags off for those bulls. Both were on mountain tops where we could not get sleds even close and it was on foot the whole way up and long shots once we got in position. Then we had to drag them out to where we could get with the sleds. Nothing easy about the whole deal, but a great time was had by all............
 
Thankfully doc25 there did not seem to be any flatdogs in the dam or at least none big enough to show any interest in a full grown man so my skills and his faith went untested. The goose was retrieved and Slice had it for dinner that night.
 
Some of the stigma at least in Alberta is this.
As a resident we have to put in for draws. And some take many years to get. But if you are from out of province or from out of country then you can hunt all spiecses every year if you have the cash. Even bighorn
Where a resident if he or she got a sheep this year can't hunt them next year.
Now lets look at sheep again. As a DYS hunter you have to learn where they are. How to get to them. Haul all your gear there on your back or have horses( this being a year in year out comitment) as a guided hunter you ride into a camp hunt with guides that know where sheep are and how to get to them. Not saying that once in camp you don't have still get your body up the mountain just the same as me. But there is less work for the guy that pays overall. Now in saying this how would a guy from out of state or out of country hunt a Alberta bighorn? Well he cant. So it is just a different experience and people have a different degree of respect held for each.
 
leeelmer..........Is there a law that says a resident cannot also hire one of these outfitters? You too could then hunt sheep every year, it would just cost more hiring the outfitter every other year.
I know from talking to the outfitters in the Yukon, it is perfectly legal, up there anyway, but no deals and the resident would pay the same as a non-resident..........in US dollars!!!! So you see the resident certainly has the advantage, therefore there should be no ill feelings or stigma, as you can avail yourself of everything the non-resident can for the same price and every other year you can DIY.........for next to no cost.
 
I grew up hunting in Saskatchewan, moved to the Yukon in my 20's.

Loved the hunting and fishing there.

Now my father.....let's call him frugal! Lol.

I hounded him for years to come up hunting, always a excuse.
So for his 65th birthday I sent him a small bunch of gifts.
Gift #1. A small plastic airplane
Gift #2. A small stuffed caribou
Gift #3. A plane ticket to the Yukon.

He flew up and we had a hell of a time hunting caribou... he shot 2 nice bulls.

Now anybody living in Saskatchewan knows that the antelope season has been mostly non existent for years.
My father has 5 15" plus antelope on the wall... the biggest just squeaking over 17". It's his favourite animal to hunt.

Fast forward to his 70th birthday and I bought him a 5 day antelope hunt in Wyoming.

Realistically it's probably his last chance at hunting antelope again.

I've never seen the old guy so happy as when he got home.


I don't understand the jealousy/envy thing about guided hunts?

If hunting is your passion and you have the desire and financial means to shoot different animals who can begrudge someone for following their dreams?
 
Ah yes I think there is a law against resident buying a guided hunt. Sheep could be different but i asked a local moose outfitter about going on a hunt with him using his outfitter tags; no go. So yes I believe there is a law against a resident using up tags designed to bring outside money in.
 
A lot of the resentment comes from those jumping the queue because they are wealthy. And it's only exasperated when it's flaunted.

Others will take moral issue selling a publicly used resource to the highest bidder.
 
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