Guided Hunt Stigma.

My biggest problem with hunting within Canada, is that as a Canadian citizen I cannot access all the game my country has to offer, openly and freely. What gives different provinces the right to exclude Canadian citizens all together or to require they pay astronomical fees to access the same game provincial residents can basically hunt for free, well OK a few bucks.

HF....how can money allow anyone to "jump the queue" as you put it. Are you talking about corruption, or the fact that for a lot of money a non-resident can buy a hunt while residents have to apply for draws and wait. Are there auction tags in Alberta? Are you prevented from bidding on them? Are they a non-resident allotment only? In the Yukon there is one sheep tag allotted to auction, with the proceeds going somewhere good (I don't recall where exactly) and it is open to all people everywhere, as far as I know, residents included.

H7RM.........I don't know the Alberta laws for sure, however you could certainly contact a non-resident to purchase the hunt and then do the hunt yourself with out breaking any laws. I still think a resident can purchase a hunt in Alberta, as the Yukon game laws were almost word for word a copy of Alberta laws when I first moved there and as far as I know, it is perfectly OK in the Yukon.
Possibly this was just that outfitters policy, and not necessarily law?
Now things may have changed and I could have my head up my a$$ for all I know, but it makes no sense that this option is closed to residents, if they are willing to pay.
 
I could be out to lunch as well. I didn't take time yet to actually look it up if if the info I got was really true. It could be that it was just the outfitter or could even be that he was given the wrong information.

Edit: just looked it up on APOS website, in frequently asked questions it was asked; 'as a resident hunter, can I contract a hunt with a big game outfitter-guide and purchase a licence using one of his allocations?'
Answer: allocations can only be used to purchase a licence for someone who lives outside of Alberta.
 
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c-fbmi said:
Some of my most difficult hunts have been guided hunts and certainly some of the most dangerous have also been guided hunts.

So I'm just curious if others have noticed this "nose in the air" attitude and stigma some try to attach to guided hunts.
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Mostly I think it's jealousy and ignorance. People that get all high and mighty about guided hunts being somewhat less are usually "deer camp" guys and stand hunters who might walk a half mile in the span of the day and either can't (or more likely won't) spend the money on a guided hunt. SO they deride them as something for lazy rich hunters or people too inept to hit the woods unescorted. Naturally, this could not be further from the truth. Anyone who has followed buffalo tracks for 20 km while skirting lions and dodging elephants is not living a lesser life because they are using a guide (which is not only smart, but usually legally required).

Anyone who fancies themselves as being "born-again-hard" and wants to run down guys that hunt with guides needs to sign up to go chase goats with Ardent. It's a minimal amount of money to show everyone what a badass they are. In reality, my money is on their tongues hanging out of their heads as they cry "uncle" by Day 3.
 
c-fbmi said:
leeelmer..........Is there a law that says a resident cannot also hire one of these outfitters? You too could then hunt sheep every year, it would just cost more hiring the outfitter every other year.
I know from talking to the outfitters in the Yukon, it is perfectly legal, up there anyway, but no deals and the resident would pay the same as a non-resident..........in US dollars!!!! So you see the resident certainly has the advantage, therefore there should be no ill feelings or stigma, as you can avail yourself of everything the non-resident can for the same price and every other year you can DIY.........for next to no cost.
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In Alberta no you cant
Outfitter tags are not allowed to be used for residents.
You can hire a outfitter to guide you if you have a tag.
14 years to get a antilope tag.
Where a non resident can pay a outfitter and hunt them every year.
That is the problem with our system in Alberta
Most residents have a very bad view of Albertas outfitters. They are self regulated and most of there board has been convicted of wildlife offences. Very bad system even Fish and Wildlife want it changed. But our government has drug there feet on the issue
 
BigUglyMan said:
Mostly I think it's jealousy and ignorance. People that get all high and mighty about guided hunts being somewhat less are usually "deer camp" guys and stand hunters who might walk a half mile in the span of the day and either can't (or more likely won't) spend the money on a guided hunt. SO they deride them as something for lazy rich hunters or people too inept to hit the woods unescorted. Naturally, this could not be further from the truth. Anyone who has followed buffalo tracks for 20 km while skirting lions and dodging elephants is not living a lesser life because they are using a guide (which is not only smart, but usually legally required).

Anyone who fancies themselves as being "born-again-hard" and wants to run down guys that hunt with guides needs to sign up to go chase goats with Ardent. It's a minimal amount of money to show everyone what a badass they are. In reality, my money is on their tongues hanging out of their heads as they cry "uncle" by Day 3.
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Amen to that.

In addition to climbing mountains, you’ll be treated to spectacular scenery (like this)!
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c-fbmi said:
My biggest problem with hunting within Canada, is that as a Canadian citizen I cannot access all the game my country has to offer, openly and freely. What gives different provinces the right to exclude Canadian citizens all together or to require they pay astronomical fees to access the same game provincial residents can basically hunt for free, well OK a few bucks.

HF....how can money allow anyone to "jump the queue" as you put it. Are you talking about corruption, or the fact that for a lot of money a non-resident can buy a hunt while residents have to apply for draws and wait. Are there auction tags in Alberta? Are you prevented from bidding on them? Are they a non-resident allotment only? In the Yukon there is one sheep tag allotted to auction, with the proceeds going somewhere good (I don't recall where exactly) and it is open to all people everywhere, as far as I know, residents included.

H7RM.........I don't know the Alberta laws for sure, however you could certainly contact a non-resident to purchase the hunt and then do the hunt yourself with out breaking any laws. I still think a resident can purchase a hunt in Alberta, as the Yukon game laws were almost word for word a copy of Alberta laws when I first moved there and as far as I know, it is perfectly OK in the Yukon.
Possibly this was just that outfitters policy, and not necessarily law?
Now things may have changed and I could have my head up my a$$ for all I know, but it makes no sense that this option is closed to residents, if they are willing to pay.
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Take our pronghorn in Alberta. A non resident can pay their money and hunt one every year. Last year, it took a dozen years to get a tag. That will naturally create animosity.

I personally don't begrudge the guided hunter, some men just need their hand held.
 
Doug is bringing something interesting.

i do remember when we were charged by a wounded lion in CAR. the gentleman with us was a very very rich man and guess what that is not the money that makes the hunter: he was with us up to the last minute: he didnt stay in the cruiser.

so Doug you are right.

Phil
 
OK.........I stand corrected on the law of residents contracting a local outfitter. Makes no sense to me, but it ain't the only law that fails to meet the common sense bar.........

HF.......just had to throw that last line in didn't you....."some men just need their hand held"..........This is exactly the attitude I referred to in my original post. So that would imply that you have never hunted with a buddy or father or son. You hunt alone every hunt every time?

BUM......you're feeling exceptionally benevolent today, aren't you?.........3 days really?..........I'd be more inclined to predict 3 hours, after the climbing starts........Goat hunting certainly separates the keyboard hunters from the real hunters, guided or not...
 
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I dont be grudge guided hunters one bit. Most of the areas in the mountains the passes were found by outfitters. It is a great way for a non resident to hunt in a area you are not from. Then the local laws can be explained and the animals explained. It
Also how would someone from another country come and hunt here? Very hard unless you have family in a area. Also I would love to hunt game in other areas other than Alberta and how could i get mad at someone coming here if i want to hunt somewhere else.
 
Think of it this way.
In terms of cars, who values the restoration project more:
A) the guy who took years be building it himself

Or

B) the guy who bought it already done

There is nothing wrong with being the B guy. In most cases I am him. But he will never be able to feel the satisfaction that the other guy does, nor the pride.

The same can be said for a guided hunt. When someone else puts in all the leg work, and all you do is pull the trigger, write the cheque and leave a good tip it isn't the same.
 
heronfish said:
Take our pronghorn in Alberta. A non resident can pay their money and hunt one every year. Last year, it took a dozen years to get a tag. That will naturally create animosity.

I personally don't begrudge the guided hunter, some men just need their hand held.
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I have never personally been on a guided big game hunt though I would if it were in the cards. I must say though that in a sea of some really stupid comments this one really stands out! Congratulations on being such a real man. I am sure the “guided” hunters here reading this are in awe of your machismo and manliness.
 
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heronfish said:
Think of it this way.
In terms of cars, who values the restoration project more:
A) the guy who took years be building it himself

Or

B) the guy who bought it already done

There is nothing wrong with being the B guy. In most cases I am him. But he will never be able to feel the satisfaction that the other guy does, nor the pride.

The same can be said for a guided hunt. When someone else puts in all the leg work, and all you do is pull the trigger, write the cheque and leave a good tip it isn't the same.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you may be speaking without experience. How many guided hunts have you been on? On a side note, I congratulate you on doing all things for yourself, no help needed. You sir, are an incredible human being. Represent!!!
 
heronfish said:
Think of it this way.
In terms of cars, who values the restoration project more:
A) the guy who took years be building it himself

Or

B) the guy who bought it already done

There is nothing wrong with being the B guy. In most cases I am him. But he will never be able to feel the satisfaction that the other guy does, nor the pride.

The same can be said for a guided hunt. When someone else puts in all the leg work, and all you do is pull the trigger, write the cheque and leave a good tip it isn't the same.
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so there are many hunts you will never go because you need a guide?

when i guided in Northern quebec i always find it was a team work not only money talk. most of the guides i know are not doing it for the money: they have all well paid jobs ...
 
emerson said:
Sounds like you may be speaking without experience. How many guided hunts have you been on? On a side note, I congratulate you on doing all things for yourself, no help needed. You sir, are an incredible human being. Represent!!!
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You must have not read the part where i fully admitted to buying most things that are completed ahead of time. I sure didn't build my house with my own two hands. I just pay for it.

Here is my experience with guided hunts. I have a father who has been to Africa twice, where he either sat at a watering hole with a guide or drove around. Each involved a guided who essentially pointed out animals and offered up a price tag. Big adventure there. Essentially a hand holding operation.

Maybe that opinion is part jealousy, but I doubt it.
 
heronfish said:
You must have not read the part where i fully admitted to buying most things that are completed ahead of time. I sure didn't build my house with my own two hands. I just pay for it.

Here is my experience with guided hunts. I have a father who has been to Africa twice, where he either sat at a watering hole with a guide or drove around. Each involved a guided who essentially pointed out animals and offered up a price tag. Big adventure there. Essentially a hand holding operation.

Maybe that opinion is part jealousy, but I doubt it.
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for the africa part i will tell you only one thing: you pay and as a customer you get what you want but if you do not tell then there is nothing that can be done for you ...
 
I have no issue with guided hunts and would never hold my nose up at anyone who is on one.
Being a new hunter myself, pretty much all my hunts are guided. Whether I choose to pay cash or buy the beer and pull my weight at camp with my buddies. I know a large part of my success is relying on learning from those more experienced.

Does that mean on the hunt I haven’t worked as hard as the buddy/guide, no not necessarily, in fact knowing some of my buddies I’ve had to pull extra work being the newbie. But that doesn’t mean I was the one who put in all the work needed to make the kill.

I realize that my guide/buddy had to put way more hours in learning the area, putting boots to the ground to know the resident game, understanding the weather and everything else that goes along with success.

Does it make my success any less important to me? He’ll no! But I don’t think for a minute that I’ve put in anywhere near the time and work my guide did to make that a success. And I’ll be the first to buy a round to thank them for that work.
 
bellero said:
For having done both, they are easier in a sense that you just show up for the fun part. No scouting, no patterning, land prep, food plots, baiting, hours spent retrieving cameras, looking at pics, judging antler size, etc. No stand building or shooting lanes clearing either. I have way more respect for a guy that harvest a trophy on a DIY hunt than a guy with thick wallet and a room full of trophies.
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That's what I was going to say.
 
This topic is too broad to definitely call one thing better than another, it’s all hunting. I respect any hunter, but especially respect the folks who’ve hunted the miserably hard, low opportunity stuff like mountain goats and sheep, which for many folks by law calls for a guide. There are easy, and ridiculously hard guided hunts- the same is true for DIY. In the end if somebody has a hunting story, I’m like Dogleg, I’ll sit down and enjoy it because I like hunting, no asterisks required.
 
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