Guided Hunt Stigma.
- Thread starter c-fbmi
- Start date
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You bluntly though eloquently managed to say something I was trying to chew into type. I see another version of it in guys from home here in BC, where 1/3rd of the entire country’s black bears live, deriding baiting bears elsewhere in the country as somehow not fair chase. They’ve never baited nor do they understand the work, and some seem to feel cruising logging roads is more commendable. It’s all hunting and all respectable, heck I like ### too and some other folks’ methods raise my eyebrow. But I’d still like to hear about it over a beer.
That begs the important question, for what and where have you paid for Patrick? It’s a rather broad spectrum out there and difficult to get the context.
Angus
- Location
- Saskatchewan
As an enthusiastic beginner, I hunted moose the hard way during our Saskatchewan calling season for five years in a row without ever seeing a legal bull. Paddled miles, packed a canoe camp over two brutal portages each time, called, tracked and stalked for hours, and spent days on end returning home to a miserable tent in the marsh, exhausted, wet and tired beyond reason. Endured snow and broke canoe paddles on ice to get out of that hell. And later I shot some easy moose in the prairie farmland with a do it yourself draw either-### tag and the blessing of farmer neighbours who offered machinery to pack the carcass out. Loved it all. Wouldn't do anything different.
I was offered moose while on a very expensive guided multi species hunt in the Yukon. Moose that had far bigger antlers than any I would likely find at home. Paid big bucks for that privilege. I bought a tag. Found a nice bull, but decided to hold out for caribou and goats. Didn't get either. Most other hunters would have pulled the trigger on a pretty good moose. Good for them.
Many hunters of lesser means or ambition don't get the opportunities I've had. To those who would judge without personal experience or understanding - pay your dues!
I was offered moose while on a very expensive guided multi species hunt in the Yukon. Moose that had far bigger antlers than any I would likely find at home. Paid big bucks for that privilege. I bought a tag. Found a nice bull, but decided to hold out for caribou and goats. Didn't get either. Most other hunters would have pulled the trigger on a pretty good moose. Good for them.
Many hunters of lesser means or ambition don't get the opportunities I've had. To those who would judge without personal experience or understanding - pay your dues!
I don't think there's any shame in guided hunts. Maybe the person doesn't have much time to put in, maybe they're new to hunting, maybe they don't have that animal in their immediate geographic location, who cares their excuse? I've been fortunate enough to meet all walks of life in my guiding adventures, and don't really think any less of someone who chooses an outfitter whether it be and easier hunt or not. I had a group that had never hunted birds before and were up on a guys trip just spending time together. Some other folks on a father and sons trip, again, spending time together enjoying the great outdoors. Another guy who comes to hunt geese by himself as he just wants to extend his season. Maybe folks want to experience something different or have a chance at their dream animal for once. I've witnessed guys in camp be absolutely over the moon with a tiny 120" deer they came home with, be tickled pink with their first bear or colour phase bear, and just full of giggles watching a flock of geese pour into our decoys.
I think anyone judging folks that go on guided hunts ought to give their head a shake. Someone paid to go on that vacation to have a good time, just let them have their fun and worry about yourself.
Just my .02
I think anyone judging folks that go on guided hunts ought to give their head a shake. Someone paid to go on that vacation to have a good time, just let them have their fun and worry about yourself.
Just my .02
Previous poster brought up a good point. It's generally understood that going somewhere warm and spending a week or 2 drunk is a reasonable "vacation" for many. Why should paying to hunt instead be criticized like a SJW crusade? Lazy people are one thing, those who know how to ask for help are not always the same folks.
I've never noticed that stigma. In my view you do what works for you. If you can afford guided trips good for you, if you can't and make your hunts close and affordable good for you too. I have no desire to travel out of country to hunt. Going to Africa just doesn't appeal to me, or New Zealand or where ever. The only trip or guided hunt that I would like to do one day is a caribou hunt with my son. From what I've read that is pretty vanilla for the travel to hunt guys and usually taken as an extra on a "better" hunt but it is something that I've wanted to do with my son for years. I live in Alberta - I've shot both kinds of deer, moose and elk, tried for sheep years ago but don't think I could do the climbing now. Everything I want is here other than caribou, one day...
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Maybe caribou was a vanilla hunt some years ago but it's quickly becoming one of the pricier hunts in North America. Do it while you can. You can hunt Africa for less.
Since I was a kid, I dreamed of hunting. Some of those daydreams were local, some exotic, and some in the wrong century. That last one has been a tough nut to crack, but I've been able to do most of what I wanted the most.
The funny, distressing thing is few of those hunts ended up matching well with the fantasy. I've never been been stranded in a foreign country in a dream, never have vital equipment fail in a dream. The game is always plentiful, it never rains, there were no criminals, con-artists or corruption and best of all I could be plopped down anywhere in the world and know everything there was to know about the game and area. Everyone spoke English in those dreams too. All of it was either free or there was so much dream money that it didn't matter. All in all it's a great fantasy, and I enthusiastically recommend it to everyone.
The realities have been different. Right off the bat, for practically everything you're going to need a guide and outfitter ornyoure not doing it at all. If you live in a province with many species that you can hunt on your own that makes you more lucky than awesome. Even if you are awesome it's only in your own yard on somewhere between one and a dozen species. What do you do after that?
If you are going to do this stuff you have to realize that hunting isn't what we wish it was, it is way it is. Seldom does that hunt align with expectations, but you will see things that surprise you. Like for instance I never knew that there were whitetail in the south with hooves like sitatunga. I never knew that witchcraft could be part of buffalo hunting. I never knew how big a crocodile could get, or how a province could smell like dead fish, or a monsoon can hit so hard that you wonder if you can drown standing up. I never knew the excitement of an elephant deciding whether to kill someone, or the strange calm when a buffalo decided to go for it. I never knew what desolation was until I hunted in an arctic winter. I learned that some of the worst wrecks made the best stories, and that the nature of adventure is that you don't get the adventure you wanted. If you do, it's not an adventure.
Hunting on your own has lots to offer. Do it , enjoy it, treasure it. We all do. Do it until you get bored with it. Just know that you are missing out on other things that you haven't imagined, or imagined wrong. Don't miss out on the world because it doesn't play by your rules.
And sometimes the grapes are sour. Too sour for some.
The funny, distressing thing is few of those hunts ended up matching well with the fantasy. I've never been been stranded in a foreign country in a dream, never have vital equipment fail in a dream. The game is always plentiful, it never rains, there were no criminals, con-artists or corruption and best of all I could be plopped down anywhere in the world and know everything there was to know about the game and area. Everyone spoke English in those dreams too. All of it was either free or there was so much dream money that it didn't matter. All in all it's a great fantasy, and I enthusiastically recommend it to everyone.
The realities have been different. Right off the bat, for practically everything you're going to need a guide and outfitter ornyoure not doing it at all. If you live in a province with many species that you can hunt on your own that makes you more lucky than awesome. Even if you are awesome it's only in your own yard on somewhere between one and a dozen species. What do you do after that?
If you are going to do this stuff you have to realize that hunting isn't what we wish it was, it is way it is. Seldom does that hunt align with expectations, but you will see things that surprise you. Like for instance I never knew that there were whitetail in the south with hooves like sitatunga. I never knew that witchcraft could be part of buffalo hunting. I never knew how big a crocodile could get, or how a province could smell like dead fish, or a monsoon can hit so hard that you wonder if you can drown standing up. I never knew the excitement of an elephant deciding whether to kill someone, or the strange calm when a buffalo decided to go for it. I never knew what desolation was until I hunted in an arctic winter. I learned that some of the worst wrecks made the best stories, and that the nature of adventure is that you don't get the adventure you wanted. If you do, it's not an adventure.
Hunting on your own has lots to offer. Do it , enjoy it, treasure it. We all do. Do it until you get bored with it. Just know that you are missing out on other things that you haven't imagined, or imagined wrong. Don't miss out on the world because it doesn't play by your rules.
And sometimes the grapes are sour. Too sour for some.
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Really? My impression is that they are added on to other hunts as filler. Good to know though. It may be more expensive by the time I get to it but there is no way I could go to Africa. Severe motion sickness - the hours in a plane would kill me. Short hops are bad enough and I would do one to go up north but 6-8-10 hours or more uh uh. Aside from that I just don't have the desire to shoot anything over there.
All my hunts are on the cheap, mostly local, self guided, or have a buddy that runs bear baits for me in the spring. Mostly because my hunting runs almost year around and I like to get out as often as possible for whatever it may be, deer, coyotes, bear, turkey, ducks, geese, you name it. Vacation time gets eaten up very fast. I would rather pay $1000 for a local lease of a deer hunting spot, that I can get out to 3-4 times a week than burn a weeks vacation on an out of town hunt. If I won the lottery it would greatly change my habits. Several guides would be on speed dial. I would not give a flying F what anyone thought. The exotic game? Sure, I suppose at some point, but I would be all over:
-guided coyote hunts (tony tebbe style) and some trips with night calling (infra-red/night vision)
-helicopter pig hunts, night pig hunts
-mountain lion and bobcat hunts
-grizzly bear
-out west spot and stalk black bear
-gopher shoots
-guided coyote hunts (tony tebbe style) and some trips with night calling (infra-red/night vision)
-helicopter pig hunts, night pig hunts
-mountain lion and bobcat hunts
-grizzly bear
-out west spot and stalk black bear
-gopher shoots
leelmer.............You reminded me that I am in need of a better pronghorn. So I contacted the only outfitter in Alberta that advertises them and I was surprised at how economical it is. We are negotiating a deal right now and I'm also thinking mule deer if possible.
Does anyone have a set of regs handy and can tell me what a non-resident antelope and mule deer tags cost and are there trophy fees? I'm just not good enough on this computer to find it for myself..........
Does anyone have a set of regs handy and can tell me what a non-resident antelope and mule deer tags cost and are there trophy fees? I'm just not good enough on this computer to find it for myself..........
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You'll be happy to know that a newly applying Alberta tax paying resident will never get drawn for trophy pronghorn in their lives.
This is based on nearly 40,000 people in the draw code for 1000 +/- tags.
But a non-resident can hunt every year with an Alberta outfitter.
Wonder why outfitted hunts get a bad rap?
Well buckmstr, do you really believe that the outfitter allotment, if added back into the general draw, would really change the resident odds. How many tags are allotted for outfitters, 20 or maybe 50. The thing is, these allotted tags allow non-residents a chance at these unique little animals and bring revenue into the province every year. If you really want an antelope that bad, go to Wyoming and shoot one or Montana. They are cheaper than your non-resident hunts in Alberta and you too can hunt one every year. And yes I DO WONDER why outfitted hunts get a bad rap. Your post fairly reeks of jealousy...........and zero logic, I might add.
If the odds were the other way around, and non-resident outfitted allotments were 1000 +/- tags and resident tags were 20 or 50 +/- then you would have a legitimate complaint.......IMHO.
If the odds were the other way around, and non-resident outfitted allotments were 1000 +/- tags and resident tags were 20 or 50 +/- then you would have a legitimate complaint.......IMHO.
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- Location
- Republic of Alberta
"Most AB residents will never get drawn for trophy pronghorn, but non residents can pay and hunt every year."
...
"Ya man you're just jealous of my dollars"
I doubt it's pure jealousy. Some people just wanna hunt in their home province.
Antelope $213.10
Mule Deer $132.24
Last years prices note sure if they will go up
No trophy fee unless your outfitter charges you one.
Also, residents would not be so angry, if say I apply for a draw, lets say Antelope, and don't get drawn.
Then if I had the cash just like a non resident could pay a outfitter and go with them and use one of there tags.
I think this would be a better option. It would not solve the issue but would help.
Now for myself I would not do this, but I am sure there are a few in Alberta that would.
I was saving for a guided B.C. Grizzly hunt, but that is off the list thanks to BC NDP, (this also took it off the list for B.C. residents, and I am sure you guys would be pissed if non residents could hunt them but residents could not)
Then if I had the cash just like a non resident could pay a outfitter and go with them and use one of there tags.
I think this would be a better option. It would not solve the issue but would help.
Now for myself I would not do this, but I am sure there are a few in Alberta that would.
I was saving for a guided B.C. Grizzly hunt, but that is off the list thanks to BC NDP, (this also took it off the list for B.C. residents, and I am sure you guys would be pissed if non residents could hunt them but residents could not)
Yes, I was a professional guide for 8 years, and yes, I did much more work than my clients, and that's the service I wanted to provide. I wanted my clients to have a great experience and not to bust their family jewels doing so. Most, or all of them were rewarded with a nice trophy animal at my expense of working hard. No I never been guided, nor do I want to. Alberta it is the Africa of Canada. Alberta is most diverse with it's ecology, flora and fauna. There is absolutely no need for me to search elsewhere. I have everything here from gophers to moose, and much much more in-between.
WeatherdoG
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Trenton, ON
To me it looks a lot like the people who say things like "Why buy a BMW when a Chevy costs half as much, and still gets you from point A to point B."
To those people it comes down to not wanting to "waste" money on "frivolous" things. They have likely never sat behind the wheel of a BMW to know whether it's a waste or not, and usually base their opinion on nothing but misconceptions and jealousy. I was one of those people until I tried a BMW as a rental when I was in Europe. I'm still too poor to buy one myself, but I'd never judge someone for owning or wanting one.
If you have tried guided hunting and don't like it that's cool, if you don't want to try it because it's a "waste" that's cool too. Just don't act morally superior because as stated earlier you're lucky enough to live in an area with abundant wildlife and have the time to scout and set up for yourself prior to the season, or are just too poor/cheap to afford a guided hunt.
My next trip out(whenever it happens) will likely end up being guided just because I don't have the time/access to do it myself in my new province.
To those people it comes down to not wanting to "waste" money on "frivolous" things. They have likely never sat behind the wheel of a BMW to know whether it's a waste or not, and usually base their opinion on nothing but misconceptions and jealousy. I was one of those people until I tried a BMW as a rental when I was in Europe. I'm still too poor to buy one myself, but I'd never judge someone for owning or wanting one.
If you have tried guided hunting and don't like it that's cool, if you don't want to try it because it's a "waste" that's cool too. Just don't act morally superior because as stated earlier you're lucky enough to live in an area with abundant wildlife and have the time to scout and set up for yourself prior to the season, or are just too poor/cheap to afford a guided hunt.
My next trip out(whenever it happens) will likely end up being guided just because I don't have the time/access to do it myself in my new province.
Are you still able to bank your Priority in Alberta? There was some talk of doing away with that.
They used to publish the lists of those Drawn, and the Priority that you had to have to ensure that you actually got a draw. I banked my Pri for moose, got it up to 11, IIRC, before I put in for a zone local to me at that time, rather than picking up an undersubscribed tag from out in the boondocks. That represents 11 years of putting in my draw form saying I wished to not get drawn, just add to my Priority.
Somewhere the data will be available that actually show how high you have to be to get a tag for sure, so you can actually make plans.
Or did they go to straight randomness? That would really suck for those that have been saving up for an opportunity.
And I gotta say, that prioritizing outsiders over the residents, for access to local resources, is a bit of a sting. Strangely, I don't see THAT as being Jealousy, either.
c-fbmi, where are you pulling the 20-50 tags number from? Source?
