Guidegun load question!!

crazy_davey you know what? I do not think the tree test is reliable proof of how the bullet will react on game.

One of the guys from work also fired some through a big poplar and recovered bullets that looked pretty much that, but I think the tree actually helps to hold the bullet together...

Same thing with clay.
 
Well, all the animals I have seen shot with these have died on the spot. They deffinitely didnt turn into grenades when they hit.

I have seen bullets completely come apart in wood, and seen it many times. The wood didnt help hold those ones together.

Either way it is a sh!tty way to test bullets IMO, but still fun.
 
Demonical
Sorry your experiences with the Speer 400gr on your 6'3" Black Bear were somewhat less than favourable. Two spine shots @ 30yds should definately have anchoured it, good shooting.
Small lead fragments and pieces of jacket of one bullet and the other 'Vaporizes'? 400grs + of soft lead totally disappeared/vaporized? And this happened @ close range & at .45-70 velocities 1800 f/sec, yet there is a top velocity of 2400 f/sec listed for that bullet in the .458wm loads? Ya, I'd be 'amazed' to.
In discussions with Speer tech and in their # 13 manual, they admit, "The bullet is designed for the .45-70 but could be used in the.458wm., however, in the .458wm the 350gr is a more appropiate choice". In their listed .45-70 Lever Action loads and in the .458wm loads, they state the short comings and limitations of the 400gr bullet. Even so, I guess I'm amazed by the degree of how much one of your bullets fragmented and the other 'Vaporized'.
Yes, the Remington 405's may well be 'better' and as I've stated, I look forward to getting my hands on 'some' and testing accuracy, penetration and mushrooming quality.
You're curious about the reason for my choice of the 400gr Speer as a favorite? Thats because of all the jacketed bullets I've tried, to date, in both my Marlin GS and a Pedersoli, my best accuracy was obtained with the Speer 400gr. I was also pleased with the results I obtained shooting into a couple mediums, at .45-70 velocities.
You're also curious as to what I've shot with it game wise? As I've mentioned much earlier on this site and others, nothing. It's just within the last year or so that I've started taking this gun & ammo combo out for 'walks in the woods'. Hopefully, this year.
Last but not least, there are a number of people on this site and another that have experienced very favourable results with this bullet. Check out;
Huntingbc.ca
- Forum - Gun Talk, Reloading and Wildcat Cartridges
- Thread - Marlin XLR .45-70 Range Results
In particular, post's # 14 & 37 that show mushrooming results and post # 25 showing target results.
 
Demonical said:
Davey & John, thanks for the insightful posts. Good info. :)
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Hey, Demonical, thanks for sharing your experiences with that particular bullet. Who knows, perhaps if/when I get the opportunity to 'try' it out on game I may experience a similar end result. Hopefully not, but...........
As a bit of a side issue, and I'm not trying to side track this thread with a different calibre but the basic concern is the same. I've always found the manufacturers very helpful on similar items of concern, Speer in particular. When I first got my .500 S&W, components and info weren't readily available. I acquired some Speer 325gr UC-HP, made for the 50 Action Express. To allow me to crimp them a friend installed a cannelure groove 0.310" up from the base. As they were close in weight to the Hornady & Sierra 350gr I used load info I got from those Co.'s as a basis for the 325gr Speers. As I don't have a chrono, yet, I'm guessing the velocities were 1700-1800 f/sec., and they shot really well!! I did notice in the Speer # 13 manual, using the 325gr in the Action Express, their top velocity is 1475 f/sec. Somewhat after the fact I contacted Speer, and told them what I had done and was using and asked for their opinion. They told me, in very strong terms, to keep the velocity UNDER 1500 f/sec. as anything over that was exceeding the design spec's. Should've asked first.
Again, I appreciate you sharing your experiences.
 
crazy_davey said:
John, if you want some 405 Rem's to try out, let me know and I'll send you some free of charge.
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crazy_davey.
Thank you kindly! Who can pass up an offer like that, and it isn't even close to Christmas?;)
On my last trip to the Edmonton/Sherwood Park area, I stopped in and tried to get some @ P&d but they didn't have any in stock and I didn't look at WSS.
Again, I appreciate your offer. If you have and are willing to part with, or can get, say, a couple of boxes, PM me and let me know the cost including shipping. I'd like to get enough to do some effective testing. A while ago I tested some cast .500 bullets from a supplier in my S&W but it's hard to come to any realistic conclusion based on the test of 15 bullets.:rolleyes:
Let me know, and thanks again for the offer.:) Oh, what's your best load using them?
 
I am using 53g of 3031, seems to work well for my rifles. I have gone up and down with this load and with mostly very good results, but of course you would have to play with the load yourself and find what works the best for you.

I have also played with H335, H4895 and IMR4895 but I would have to look up my data on those loads.

Bullets will be in the mail John, tomorow is my post office run.
 
FWIW I was gettiong 2600 fps from the 350 Hornies out of a 458......they held up reasonably well although did suffer some slight "fragmenting" from the nose when tested on a Deer:redface:

Although I eventually went to Cast Bullets in all my 45 Cals.....

I feel They just simply "Belong" in a Big Bore Levergun ! :onCrack:
 
crazy_davey said:
I am using 53g of 3031, seems to work well for my rifles. I have gone up and down with this load and with mostly very good results, but of course you would have to play with the load yourself and find what works the best for you.

I have also played with H335, H4895 and IMR4895 but I would have to look up my data on those loads.

Bullets will be in the mail John, tomorow is my post office run.
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PM sent Re: mail info, and again, thank you.
 
I shot both the 350gr Hornady RN and the Speer 400gr FP in my .45-70 then switched to cast bullets. My favorite load was a 350gr cast over 52.0gr of Reloder 7 and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp die. This load went over the sky screens at well over 1900fps from that little first generation Guide Gun.

*edited - Speer 400gr not 405gr :redface:
 
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BC Bigbore said:
I shot both the 350gr Hornady RN and the Speer 405gr FP in my .45-70 then switched to cast bullets. My favorite load was a 350gr cast over 52.0gr of Reloder 7 and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp die. This load went over the sky screens at well over 1900fps from that little first generation Guide Gun.
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As I've mentioned, I went with the Speer 400gr Flat-SP for jacketed becauseI got my best accuracy with it.:D I have a variety of cast bullets I like shooting and wouldn't hesitate to use one of them on game.:) For the most part, if you 'pound' any piece of lead that diameter through most game animals, they're not going to go far.:rockOn: And some of the accuracy with a good cast bullet will match any jacketed.:)
 
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