Gun barrel lettering

SPI - I haven't see the New Hermes. Thats too bad. Aren't they $5000ish in the US? I certainly think they will work for light work. Heavy steel barrels may start to be a problem. Have you seen any other product or machine that won't brake the bank?

These high costs are exactly why many smiths use the basic Hermes system or the electro-chemical process.

I understand that the etch-o-matic uses two types of stencils. Have you tried both and had equally poor results?
 
Joe The etchomatic thing looks interesting, I have not researched that particular product. Having a laser, means I can do wood, plastic, steel, granite, glass etc ,etc, so to me the etchomatic seems very limited in use for my needs, almost bordering on hobbyist. I can see the advantages to marking blades or tools in this manner if all you do is produce a few simialr items, primarily time and cost, I don't see it practical for me as my businesses are abit more varied.
What I can't do with the laser, I seem to be able to cover with the CNC mill, simple tasks like engaving, making actions, scope rings, rails , and even stocks, not just aluminum, but fiberglass and wood, although I prefer not to do wood unless totally no other option exists, it is messy on the equipment.
 
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Rick, funny you should mention that. If you look at their site, the product does most of the things you have mentioned. It may give the appearance of "hobby" but you would be surprised at the volume of quality shops/mfgs. that use this type of product. Perhaps if the cost were higher it might make it professional in some peoples eyes, but the process is simple and already priced high.

Which brand/model laser are you using? If you don't mind my asking, how long is a typical custom labeling job from start to finish?

Given the costs of some of the cnc machines, almost anyone can own one now. Its too bad you can't do it all on a cnc. Just as one example of not being able to do it all....would be Nesika bay among others. It is difficult not to farm out some of the work to make a quality action, but if you are able to do it all in house, that’s great.

To be competitive with most of the items you mentioned, you need volume or customers with deep pockets.....or lots of $$$$ or hell a mama (maybe a wife)and papa with lots of $$$$;)
 
Joe I can not see how the etchomatic can be used to mill out actions, rails or rings, mark them maybe, but actually machine them??? Am I missing something here?
Typical set up time to do the engraving as I do on both sides of a barrel is about 30 minutes, basic computer program is easily altered to change data info, then about 7 minutes for the laser to makes it many passes back and forth, as it works much like a dot matrix printer for a computer.
For gunmaking it is really not cost efficient, but with the other applications, 1 can make money with it. The machine it self was just over $40,000.00

Correct, actions do require several machine steps to build, a 5 axis cnc machine center however will cover most of it. Also true there are things that are more cost effective to out source, in my case, EDM work, triggers, and heat treating are outsourced. We are however equipped with mig,tig,gas and arc weld capabilities as well as some pretty good machine shop equipment.

As for volume, yes it would help defray costs. I am not really interested in high volume, as that usually means less quality.
As for wife, she has been able to keep the house going in lean times, other than that I have done it ALL the hard way, on my own, which thankfully leaves my beholden to no-one.
I was raised in a house where 1 was expected to pull more than 1s share and taught that the best way to obtain anything was to work for it, there are NO free rides. "Work hard , and prosper " was the saying while I lived at home as a kid. Seems to have been a useful motto my Dad gave me to live by.
 
There is a fellow named Mike Hunter in the US who is restoring a Winchester 1886 back to factory mint condition for me. He had to replace the barrel, as the original was sawed off and damaged. He has copies of original lettering dies and the total cost for the new barrel, including stamping to match original lettering was approximately $US 500 IIRC.
 
NTF:) - Rick - that isn't surprising;) . Thats what I like about you; your such a kidder!:D :D Time to do a few more serious things there partner....C U L G

Almost forgot....so what model laser was that Rick...dancing around with $$$ really doesn't give us much to go on other than you seem fixated on $$$ and no one on this site could be like that.;) :) :)
 
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Joe I am not sure what your cute computer acronyms mean, so spell it out for me please
NTF means????
C U L G means ????

Not thats its any of your business or that it will mean anything to you , but the engraver we have is VIS model 2424 table coupled with the Vision VXL model co2 Galvo head .
Maybe you should come down and see us , we could set you up with a nice laser engraved granite headstone. I seem to be killing you anyway
 
### International said:
SPI - I haven't see the New Hermes. Thats too bad. Aren't they $5000ish in the US? I certainly think they will work for light work. Heavy steel barrels may start to be a problem. Have you seen any other product or machine that won't brake the bank?

These high costs are exactly why many smiths use the basic Hermes system or the electro-chemical process.

I understand that the etch-o-matic uses two types of stencils. Have you tried both and had equally poor results?
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You are thinking of the IM4 which is about $5000 USD less shipping and computer/monitor. I do not know what they would be in landed $CD but probably around $7500 complete. I think that there are even cheaper ones. The one we evaluated was a custom assembled unit that resembled their M40 series except that it had a wider table and an integrated 4th axis.

At this time there are a ton of other machines that can do what the Hermes can and more besides, for less money. Small table-top CNC machines can be had from many companies such as Sherline, MaxNC, Taig, and in fact, Roland has 2 machines in the under $3000 range that are basically plug-and-play. They won't cut steel either, but they will certainly engrave it, and be able to scan in 3-D besides.

Actually I have used three types of stencil with the etch-o-matic. The green film ones are prepared by direct pressure and provided with the machine. They are ok for text, but have some leaching on the edges of the letters and detail. They do not last long. I have also used photo-emulsion transfer resist stenciling with it. This is much crisper, but has the disadvantage of requireing a new stencil to be exposed for each object to be marked. Printed stencils seem to be the best and most economical (printing the resist directly on the item through a silkscreen. However, if you have the skills to develop your own silkscreens or photo-transfers, you should be able to easily figure out how to adapt a small rectifier and some common materials and chemicals to do the same thing that you can with the etch-o-matic, but for a fraction of the cost.
 
House of Tools sells the Etchomatics; they are a nice toy, I guess you could get mediocre with them if you spent a lot of time and effort! I bought one several years ago and it has mostly sat around, as it is a bit of a messy, picky processs to set up and yields truly "homemade" looking results!
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Joe I am not sure what your cute computer acronyms mean, so spell it out for me please
NTF means????
C U L G means ????

Not thats its any of your business or that it will mean anything to you , but the engraver we have is VIS model 2424 table coupled with the Vision VXL model co2 Galvo head .
Maybe you should come down and see us , we could set you up with a nice laser engraved granite headstone. I seem to be killing you anyway
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As funny as this is, Rick does do one hell of a nice Headstone, and glass work, and other stuff. After he is done with the wife's rifle It may be a good Idea for me to order my Headstone;) :)
 
rick at alberta tactical is owed an apology by JOE

I do not know what his problem is but I know the sec of the DV gun club waited 7 months to get a barrel done by JOE and it was not

Soooooooo he got his rifle back and got another smith to do it in 2 weeks and was very happy with the job

WHAT I DID NOT SEE WAS HOW JOE ENGRAVES THE MANY (????????) IF ANY BARRELS HE PUTS ON.

COME OIN JOE APOLOGIZE or are you on your meds again.




bullet proof vest on jeff rick does nice work and deserves a little more respect than that. right lyle, paul, tony etc jeff
 
Banning of Alberta Tactical

Why would Rick be banned from gunnutz when he was just defending himself from Joe ##### who claims to know everything about building rifles even though he gets other builders to do his stuff?
 
6ppc said:
Why would Rick be banned from gunnutz when he was just defending himself from Joe ##### who claims to know everything about building rifles even though he gets other builders to do his stuff?
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Lyle - lets sit down and talk sometime. From what I gathered, the board has specific reasons for banning Rick Timmins of Alberta Tactical Rifle. I understood them to be related to specific board rules discussed in some detail elsewhere. I think if you follow one of the links you will learn more.

For a person who has never met me you seem to think you know a fair bit. Granted I tend to post a fair bit and in particular especially if I disagree with a post. I guess it is possible to draw the unlikely conclusion that I know it all but we both know no one does! I certainly don't claim to and I don't ever recall doing so or even engaging you in any open technical conversation. I understand you know a fair bit about the accuracy game and I can only encourage you to participate in this open forum. In any case, it might be a good idea to stop spreading false and malicious rumors, but I suppose there is no point in saying that since you will do whatever you like. When you publicly tried to drag Bill Gammon (Long time Canadian Benchrest Shooter) through the dirt (just last year and I am sure you know what I am talking about), I figured it must have been a misunderstanding. When I offered to give you my spot on the Canadian Benchrest team (assuming it was okay to do so) back in 2005 when you raised the issue of being able to attend the Worlds .....and you never even had the courtesy to respond, I thought that was strange. How quick we forget. Clearly I can see from your most recent post, the caliber of person you are now portraying. I honestly hope you are having an off day since we all can at one time or another. That I guess remains to be seen.

I suppose you might be one of the rare accuracy smiths out there who has never either had custom work done or a custom rifle built for them prior to venturing into the field. Personally, I have never met one, but I sure would like to. I’m not a shamed at all to say that I have had many “quality” smiths do work for me prior to me starting my business. Those experiences were actually very good experiences and I continue to recommend these experts to potential clients if it works best for the client.

Jeff, looks like your up to your old games again and I’m guessing you must be bored. Stirring up the pot… a fellow Canadian Benchrest Shooter!:(


Boys, I hope that BR doesn’t continue to fester like this. We are all finally developing a BR group that will hopefully be able to compete together in 2007 Germany at the next Worlds. We had 3 teams in Ohio at the 2005 World's that worked well together let’s try to remain civil.
 
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