Two out of three including yours that I've seen ( can't remember on the other) had that line. Aiming/pointing line? Decoration? Styling feature? I believe that inlaid line is platinum not silver, it doesn't seem to tarnish like silver. Platinum was more valuable than gold then, so this may have been an added touch of luxury, the icing on the cake. This action was unique to Dougall but it was never patented and was probably their final attempt to recover their former glory as the business spiralled into financial turmoil. I might still have my original notes on this gun, if I can find them I'll PM you. Incidentally there is a fellow in Britain that is writing the history of JD Dougall for a book. The only problem with this is that I've been waiting at least 14 years for this book to be published. My gun will be in it. J.
Gun Engraving
- Thread starter Pinfire
- Start date
Two out of three including yours that I've seen ( can't remember on the other) had that line. Aiming/pointing line? Decoration? Styling feature? I believe that inlaid line is platinum not silver, it doesn't seem to tarnish like silver. Platinum was more valuable than gold then, so this may have been an added touch of luxury, the icing on the cake. This action was unique to Dougall but it was never patented and was probably their final attempt to recover their former glory as the business spiralled into financial turmoil. I might still have my original notes on this gun, if I can find them I'll PM you. Incidentally there is a fellow in Britain that is writing the history of JD Dougall for a book. The only problem with this is that I've been waiting at least 14 years for this book to be published. My gun will be in it. J.
Here is a more recent example than my usual offerings, a 1930-dated Browning Superposed, FN-marked.
FN decided to bring all their engraving in-house, and had Felix Funken set up an 'engraving school' at FN to train engravers. The border work on the Grade I Superposed was done by engravers who had several years' experience. With more experience, they would move on to the higher grades. Prior to 1938, field-grade Superposeds only had the chased fillets cut into the upper portion of the frame next to the upper barrel, as in the photo. After 1938 a sparse scroll was added in the centre of both sides of the frame.
FN decided to bring all their engraving in-house, and had Felix Funken set up an 'engraving school' at FN to train engravers. The border work on the Grade I Superposed was done by engravers who had several years' experience. With more experience, they would move on to the higher grades. Prior to 1938, field-grade Superposeds only had the chased fillets cut into the upper portion of the frame next to the upper barrel, as in the photo. After 1938 a sparse scroll was added in the centre of both sides of the frame.
Well I thought I would post a few pics of my Lindner made Charles Daly's, seeing as Pinfire suggested one was the inspiration for starting this excellent and informative thread.
These guns are both what were called Diamond Quality Model 275, one in 12 gauge (the restored gun) and one in 20 gauge. They were made approximately 4 years apart....best guess being roughly 1900 and 1904/5. They have very similar engraving patterns but the 20 gauge has slightly more extensive coverage. In particular the 20 gauge has barrel wedges and the fences are more extensively covered. Not sure why. It doesn't seem to be an evolution of what Daly was doing and of course there is no way to tell if the 20 gauge had some extra coverage special ordered.
That was the 12 gauge, now here is the 20 gauge:
And here they both are:
These guns are both what were called Diamond Quality Model 275, one in 12 gauge (the restored gun) and one in 20 gauge. They were made approximately 4 years apart....best guess being roughly 1900 and 1904/5. They have very similar engraving patterns but the 20 gauge has slightly more extensive coverage. In particular the 20 gauge has barrel wedges and the fences are more extensively covered. Not sure why. It doesn't seem to be an evolution of what Daly was doing and of course there is no way to tell if the 20 gauge had some extra coverage special ordered.
That was the 12 gauge, now here is the 20 gauge:
And here they both are:
I second that. Love them.
Londonshooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Gorgeous! The nitre blue of the 12 gauge pins (and triggers?) really ices the cake.
I don't know what barrel wedges are, though. Unless it's the fastener for fore-end?
I don't know what barrel wedges are, though. Unless it's the fastener for fore-end?
Wedge shaped patches of engraving on the barrels at the breech end.
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Rebel Till Death
CGN Regular
- Location
- Burlington, Ontario
It’s a Rottweil 72 super trap combo. 12 gauge? 34’’ unsingle barrel, and 32’’ double
Rebel Till Death
CGN Regular
- Location
- Burlington, Ontario
Yes I just did, probably a month or so ago! Small world haha
Well I thought I would post a few pics of my Lindner made Charles Daly's, seeing as Pinfire suggested one was the inspiration for starting this excellent and informative thread.
These guns are both what were called Diamond Quality Model 275, one in 12 gauge (the restored gun) and one in 20 gauge. They were made approximately 4 years apart....best guess being roughly 1900 and 1904/5. They have very similar engraving patterns but the 20 gauge has slightly more extensive coverage. In particular the 20 gauge has barrel wedges and the fences are more extensively covered. Not sure why. It doesn't seem to be an evolution of what Daly was doing and of course there is no way to tell if the 20 gauge had some extra coverage special ordered.
That was the 12 gauge, now here is the 20 gauge:
And here they both are:
Incredible pair of guns, Mr CB.
I wonder where one goes to find an old school engraver to apprentice under?
This is a really cool and informative thread. Firearm engraving has always fascinated me in a "how the hell do they do that" kinda way.
especially the animal depictions, amazing.
This is a really cool and informative thread. Firearm engraving has always fascinated me in a "how the hell do they do that" kinda way.
especially the animal depictions, amazing.
Many start in the jewellery business and later expand their repertoire to include firearms. Very few take apprentices in this country. The individual apprenticeship system for any skill is all but dead in Canada, engravers and gunsmiths included. There is a first class engraving firm in Quebec (Montreal?) with several european trained partners that produce world class work. I have no idea if they would ever consider an apprentice but if they did you would need to demonstrate a very high level portfolio to get a shot. This isn't a plumber apprenticeship, it's fine art.
The choice between partial and full coverage engraving might have had a cost component, or it might just be style and the evolution of styles. Has anyone seen a percussion gun with full-coverage engraving beyond pictures of guns built as exhibitions for world’s fairs? I’ve seen many pinfires, and none have the kind of total coverage engraving found on vintage hammerless sporting guns. Some run close, but the open foliate scroll on actions lends itself to leaving areas uncovered for best effect. With the steady movement towards smaller and smaller scrolls, I can see how it might be tempting to cover the entire surface in engraving. On Canvasback’s Lindners, the engraving on the 12 is wonderful, but the 20 is downright exquisite in its smaller scrolls and more detailed borders.
The first breech-loaders offered a much greater ‘canvas’ area for the engraver’s art than existed on muzzle-loaders. There was more metal to ‘soften,’ more joins to hide. Then, when hammers disappeared altogether, you had an unobstructed view of the top, sides and underside, perfect for full-coverage adornment and the new tight scrolls. Sadly I don’t have such a gun as has been pictured so far, but I hope we’ll see more such guns in this thread.
On to another engraving subject, the makers’ names, and how they appear in relation to engraving. The most common scheme has the maker’s name on the locks and the barrel rib, with the rib usually carrying the address as well. Other standard configurations include the name and street address on the rib only, the name and city on the lockplates, and, in the case of ‘guild’ guns, having no identifying marks at all. How the name is displayed on the lockplates with respect to the engraving appears to vary in three ways. The first is when the name appears almost as an afterthought, squeezed into the space left by the engraver. Here is a Boss & Co. single, where the name looks like no special place was left for it.
In a low-cost gun with less artful engraving, there is more blank space to include the name, and the effect is less cramped, as in this example by Frederick Gates of Darby:
Next is when space is left by the engraver for the name, or name and city, as in this nicely balanced example by Charles Frederick Niebour of Uxbridge:
Some engravers incorporate a cartouche to surround the maker’s name, as in the example of Ashcroft’s Dougall. More common is the utilization of a banner in the engraving design for the maker’s name. We’ve seen examples in this thread so far, such as the Pape and the Arizaga. Such banners might be straight, as (again) in this Harris Holland:
...or curving, as in these two examples, another Harris Holland, and a Cogswell & Harrison:
There are undoubtedly other ways to display names. Let’s see more examples!
The first breech-loaders offered a much greater ‘canvas’ area for the engraver’s art than existed on muzzle-loaders. There was more metal to ‘soften,’ more joins to hide. Then, when hammers disappeared altogether, you had an unobstructed view of the top, sides and underside, perfect for full-coverage adornment and the new tight scrolls. Sadly I don’t have such a gun as has been pictured so far, but I hope we’ll see more such guns in this thread.
On to another engraving subject, the makers’ names, and how they appear in relation to engraving. The most common scheme has the maker’s name on the locks and the barrel rib, with the rib usually carrying the address as well. Other standard configurations include the name and street address on the rib only, the name and city on the lockplates, and, in the case of ‘guild’ guns, having no identifying marks at all. How the name is displayed on the lockplates with respect to the engraving appears to vary in three ways. The first is when the name appears almost as an afterthought, squeezed into the space left by the engraver. Here is a Boss & Co. single, where the name looks like no special place was left for it.
In a low-cost gun with less artful engraving, there is more blank space to include the name, and the effect is less cramped, as in this example by Frederick Gates of Darby:
Next is when space is left by the engraver for the name, or name and city, as in this nicely balanced example by Charles Frederick Niebour of Uxbridge:
Some engravers incorporate a cartouche to surround the maker’s name, as in the example of Ashcroft’s Dougall. More common is the utilization of a banner in the engraving design for the maker’s name. We’ve seen examples in this thread so far, such as the Pape and the Arizaga. Such banners might be straight, as (again) in this Harris Holland:
...or curving, as in these two examples, another Harris Holland, and a Cogswell & Harrison:
There are undoubtedly other ways to display names. Let’s see more examples!
They are just outside of Quebec City. Trained at the Liege School of Gunsmithing. Chris Dawe works closely with them. They do some lovely stuff.
I have been known to produce some fine art in my lifetime from painting to carving , 3d drawing by hand and am very skilled with with my hands and intricate work. I once won my friend's company a 1/2 million dollar contract by freehanding all the 3 dimensional drawings for the project submission. I am very skilled at translating my mental vision into a finished piece and have done so in carving stone, crafting rifle stocks and assembling firearms and other forms of art and fabrication. It makes sense to look at the jewelry trade that is a good lead.
I'm disabled and want to take on learning a new skill I can do sitting down hehehe
cheers.
