Gun Newbie Wondering What Gun to Get

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mikethebike said:
Save your money.
Stack up ammo, water, food, medicine and antibiotics, and warm clothes.
Hope for the best, although if you have no military training you might not survive long fighting a russian invasion, unless you team up with the canadian forces, which would consider you more a liability than anything... Maybe read a few books on guerilla warfare, there is a good one written by a german african officer during ww1.

Works great for: russian invasions, zombie apocalypse, yellowstone volcano eruptions, falling skies alien invasions, massive earthquakes, ice storms, sharnados, katrina huricanes, etc.

Doesnt work great for: surviving nuclear war, fighting tanks, fighting drones, fighting artillerie, etc.
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Mike knows what he's talking about XD.

You can run and gun all you want, but even the most pimped out rifle and a stack of 5rd mags wouldn't protect you against 23mm cannon shells coming out a mile away from a gunship that spotted you on its FLIR and the pilot deems you a bit too suspicious for your own good. Modern warfare is more than about having a man on a gun trigger, that being said, the most valuable contribution a civilian can make during an invasion is intelligence gathering for his side. Information is what wins modern wars.

Mao's Communist forces didn't have numeric nor qualitative superiority over his Nationalist counterparts, but what he did have was a legion of sympathetic countryside peasants who fed him info and warnings on where and when Nationalist troops were moving, enabling him to evade his opponent and prevent his smaller forces from being pinned down. I don't know what he did after that, but his people are now sitting in Beijing, so he must had knew a thing or two about winning wars, if not economics.
 
War Song said:
Mike knows what he's talking about XD.

You can run and gun all you want, but even the most pimped out rifle and a stack of 5rd mags wouldn't protect you against 23mm cannon shells coming out a mile away from a gunship that spotted you on its FLIR and the pilot deems you a bit too suspicious for your own good. Modern warfare is more than about having a man on a gun trigger, that being said, the most valuable contribution a civilian can make during an invasion is intelligence gathering for his side. Information is what wins modern wars.

Mao's Communist forces didn't have numeric nor qualitative superiority over his Nationalist counterparts, but what he did have was a legion of sympathetic countryside peasants who fed him info and warnings on where and when Nationalist troops were moving, enabling him to evade his opponent and prevent his smaller forces from being pinned down. I don't know what he did after that, but his people are now sitting in Beijing, so he must had knew a thing or two about winning wars, if not economics.
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So what you're saying is not a 7.62 x 39mm?
 
OP. Regardless of what you might be prepping for, its not a bad idea to have quality firearms and training.

If you are at all serious about training in case of joining the Canadian Forces, I strongly reccomend using an AR-15 as it is just a semi-auto version of our forces select fire C7 and C8's. You can even buy the same manufacture and accessories to have an exact replica less the fun switch. The downside to this is of course it is restricted and registered.

If you are just looking for a good battle proven platform, I would strongly recommend the Tavor, it will not let you down. The T97 while comparable in looks just isn't reliable enough in my opinion to rely upon. The T97 is one of those firearms that in a SHTF situation I would pass off to the guy I dislike the most in the group, sad but true.

Another platform worth considering would be a NR ACR. Made for battle, but never actually got fielded. Tends to be a very accurate and reliable platform, also has the ability to do quick caliber changes if you build your own conversion kits. This would allow you to run both 5.56 and 762x39 and more if you chose to.

As for red rifles in 762x39, the only ones I would even look at are the VZ58/CZ858 series and 958 series. Everything else, even including them is dated tech, and the x39 round really lacks the accuracy potential that you can get from 5.56, not to mention the ammo and mags are bulkier to carry.

My opinion is get your Rpal, get a VZ58/CZ858, run it more or less bone stock. Then get decide whether you want an AR (similar to the forces) or a NR Tavor or ACR. Eventually you will probably end up with them all, so I say start with the cheaper x39 or AR-15 to start with and ease you into it first before you start buying platforms that will easily push past the $4000 mark with decent optics.

Whatever you do, don't buy an expensive rifle you then can't afford to feed, and make sure you buy optics of the same quality level of your rifle if you plan to use it in a SHTF scenario.
 
The AR15 being restricted kills this rifle for me. I want to be able to do more than just go to a range, learn to hunt, plinking in a more real world environment vs a range etc. From what I found the Tavor is way beyond $2k and the ACR is even more expensive from what I found. Overall I'm leaning towards 5.56 over any other round with 9mm an alternative (45 ACP seems too expensive). 5.56 is an actively used round by militaries worldwide, you'd think they're onto something good right? 7.62 is not in service anymore as far as I can tell and I'm not sure about long term future outlook for the round availability. Besides, for 5.56 we have the lar15 and 50 beowulf mags for STANAG rifles while the 7.62 is stuck at 5 rounds. Could you help me out and give a shortlist of under $2k 5.56 STANAG semi auto rifles? Maybe some 9mms although I'm not sure if I should just stick to 5.56. I'd like to save up for a Tavor but might not afford it for awhile so something cheaper would be nice. Thanks.
 
onetwentyish said:
OP. Regardless of what you might be prepping for, its not a bad idea to have quality firearms and training.

If you are at all serious about training in case of joining the Canadian Forces, I strongly reccomend using an AR-15 as it is just a semi-auto version of our forces select fire C7 and C8's. You can even buy the same manufacture and accessories to have an exact replica less the fun switch. The downside to this is of course it is restricted and registered.

If you are just looking for a good battle proven platform, I would strongly recommend the Tavor, it will not let you down. The T97 while comparable in looks just isn't reliable enough in my opinion to rely upon. The T97 is one of those firearms that in a SHTF situation I would pass off to the guy I dislike the most in the group, sad but true.

Another platform worth considering would be a NR ACR. Made for battle, but never actually got fielded. Tends to be a very accurate and reliable platform, also has the ability to do quick caliber changes if you build your own conversion kits. This would allow you to run both 5.56 and 762x39 and more if you chose to.

As for red rifles in 762x39, the only ones I would even look at are the VZ58/CZ858 series and 958 series. Everything else, even including them is dated tech, and the x39 round really lacks the accuracy potential that you can get from 5.56, not to mention the ammo and mags are bulkier to carry.

My opinion is get your Rpal, get a VZ58/CZ858, run it more or less bone stock. Then get decide whether you want an AR (similar to the forces) or a NR Tavor or ACR. Eventually you will probably end up with them all, so I say start with the cheaper x39 or AR-15 to start with and ease you into it first before you start buying platforms that will easily push past the $4000 mark with decent optics.

Whatever you do, don't buy an expensive rifle you then can't afford to feed, and make sure you buy optics of the same quality level of your rifle if you plan to use it in a SHTF scenario.
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yah pretty much what twenty said
i have:
tavor
acr
cz858 (back from canmore)
4 ARs (all colt)
sks (just for the heck of it)
2 browning ou shotguns
10/22

used to have: sold or returned because they're facking worthless pieces of absolute crap
t97
jr carbine
Christensen Arms AR

as far as optics, well, I have the very best
 
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SpetsnazBeaver said:
Riggseven, mate, I'm aware Ruskies actually invading US and Canada boots on the ground is unlikely. Canada going to war in Europe along with NATO allies however is very likely as things stand. I want to learn how to operate guns ahead of signing up for the army in just such a case. The home defense/guerrilla warfare part is just a hypothetical.
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So , go and join the Canadian Forces . You will get the training AND a ride to the front .
 
Dagmaar said:
So , go and join the Canadian Forces . You will get the training AND a ride to the front .
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gawd fack who wants to fight in russia or eastern europe?
beurk facking horrible
mud, snow, blizzards, wind, empty wide spaces with no cover, place probably permanently smells like manure.
honestly though this is a german, french, uk problem, cant they fix their own continent without involving us? look at their politics they are so anti confrontational they wont lift a finger, bah let them all rot, 2 wars for these fools has been enough already.
 
I was born in Ukraine so I'm not indifferent to Eastern Europe. If NATO was dragged into a war with Russia I would join our military to fight there
 
Looking to get into guns

Hi. With current global tension due in no small part by the warmongering Putin I have decided that I should get a license and get familiar with using a gun. As guns are quite expensive I need to pick a gun to save up for. After much thought and research I am almost certain that I would only get a non restricted gun as I would not be limited to the range. For caliber it seems like 556 is the best since you can get around the 5 round limit with lar15 and 50 beo mags in STANAG rifles, pistol calibers are alright too I guess with a 10 round limit (9mm specifically for cheapness) but rifles that fire them seem to be priced around the same as 556 rifles so I'm guessing it's better to go with the punchier caliber. 762 was also a caliber I considered but it is limited to 5 rounds and it's not in service anymore so not sure how abundant it will be in the future. I'm thinking more about a semi auto rifle since it would be nice to learn a rifle similar to what the military uses in case NATO gets dragged into war with Russia due to likely Russian aggression in Eastern Europe since as a Ukrainian born Canadian I would join the army if such a thing happened. I want a flexible rifle since I wouldn't be getting another gun for awhile. Plinking, range, hunting and SHTF/home defense versatility as much as possible (if there was 1 gun that did everything there wouldn't be different guns). I am hoping for a price range under $2k but worst case scenario no more expensive than a Tavor.

These are the 556 STANAG semi auto rifles I found: t97, su16, keltec rfb, xcr, tavor, ar180b, benelli mr1, sig 550, m17s

I also found some that I'm not sure we could get in Canada: mpt76, msbs radon, qbz03, f2000

Please help fill out both this list and suggest pistol caliber rifles, write your opinion on individual guns and feel free to suggest other non restricted guns (ex. shotguns, not sure if it's worth it for me). Thanks.
 
Not intending to knock you or make you feel awkward, but, firearm owners don't really talk about gun in a defence scenario.
It just seems like an odd request, almost fishing for someone to openly suggest something that could embarrass our group or hobby.

If you're serious, I appologise.

Obviously not speaking for everyone, but we own fire arms for sport, Target and hunting.

You should take your course and join a range first, then see where your interests might be.

The shooting sports community is a tight group of very friendly, supportive people that would be more than willing to suggest tools for the sport.

I don't think you'll find too many of us talking about a choice firearm for killing people.
 
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