It's typical but if you go in and explain the case and that you're ready to pay for it in full to save it until your RPAL arrives but you need to make sure it fits your hand, they will be more likely to show it to you. Might help to bring a print out of your pending approval application. You have to figure there are a lot of Medal Of Honor warriors out there that want to take up their time and hold the real thing when they cannot buy and are just wasting everyones time.
Gun shop laws....
- Thread starter Stugotsnutz
- Start date
Came across both sides of the coin out here in BC, and as mentioned by a couple others earlier in the thread the ones that treat the person with respect got the business when it came to purchasing.
Also one time I went in to check on a rifle I had a deposit down on with them, cousin was with me that day and even though he mentioned he did not have his PAL they had no issue showing him both NR and restricted rifles and handguns. A few weeks later inspired he is taking his courses and is on his way to becoming another enthusiast.
One of the best occurrences was a friend went into a shop when it was very quiet, did not have a PAL, and mentioned he had shooting experience from military, and was going to challenge tests, shop let him handle and operate action of various firearms to prepare. Passed tests and went back and bought first firearms from them.
Also one time I went in to check on a rifle I had a deposit down on with them, cousin was with me that day and even though he mentioned he did not have his PAL they had no issue showing him both NR and restricted rifles and handguns. A few weeks later inspired he is taking his courses and is on his way to becoming another enthusiast.
One of the best occurrences was a friend went into a shop when it was very quiet, did not have a PAL, and mentioned he had shooting experience from military, and was going to challenge tests, shop let him handle and operate action of various firearms to prepare. Passed tests and went back and bought first firearms from them.
The bigger chain stores seem to ask for verification of an RPAL before they will let you handle restricted's and I have been to a few specialty dealers (site Sponsors) without them asking to see my RPAL. The last time I was at WSS the girl actually took my licence and set it on the cabinet behind her until I gave her back the SR1911 I was looking at...I didn't much care for that!!! However they allowed handling of non-restricted firearms without seeing my PAL...so your guess is as good as mine??? I suspect it is just their store policy and not law since it isn't consistent.
- Location
- The Police State: Ontario
Thanks. I will be sure to never enter the doors of either one.
- Location
- The Police State: Ontario
At the The Gun Center (previously Lovett's) a few years ago I bought a new Glock and a .22 conversion kit for it. A couple of months later while there I asked to look at a then new RTF model. Was refused without presenting the government card, and the guy even remembered me!
I left and have not - will not return. Their loss.
Never encountered this anywhere before or since.
Often times we don't have all the info (as in the Epps case). Honestly, what's the problem with showing your RPAL to handle a handgun at a shop? Big deal. Don't take offense, none is intended but the bonus is that the guy infront of you who is window shopping and doesn't have his RPAL has just stepped aside for you and you can now get on with your business. Membership has it's priviledges but you have to present as a member!
thunderhand
Regular
- Location
- Mississauga
i have to agree with fdc,, no big deal, i flash the card and we're done, only takes 10 seconds.
It's no big deal when you have one, the issue arises when you're still waiting for it to be processed. I encountered the same thing, and although I can understand a business wanting to limit the riffraff, the business that let me handle their firearms without a PAL is the one that made the sales. I do think the policy can be applied selectively, although there is a gray area in the middle as always, one doesn't need to be a genius to recognize the serious buyer waiting for a PAL and distinguish him from the kid wanting to handle a cool gun because he's got nothing else to do.
This seems to be a common experience at Epps.
Back in the summer time I took a trip to Epps (while vacationing at the cottage). I got the distinct impression that they couldnt care less. I actually asked the clerk behind the desk if I was bothering him because I could feel his disdain on the other side of the counter.
So, my first visit will be my last. Even though they currently have a gun for sale that I really would like to buy, it can sit on their shelf and collect dust.
Al Flaherty's>>outstanding service, with sales people who actually like their jobs and dealing with the public {end shameless plug}
Pure Energy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A river runs through it.
All the Epps comments are new to me, they only ask for my PAL when I make a purchase. I bought a 686 there last year, pal requested when I said I will take it.
- Location
- The Police State: Ontario
Or clean cut older guys who have been heavy gun buyers all their lives, for that matter. This is common sense.
My wallet was in my truck at the far side of the lot(EPPS), I had just waited 5 minutes to get to the counter. I was on the fence about a Norinco AR if I had held it I would have bought it. but by the time I walked out to the truck I got in and drove away with no desire to ever stop there again.
I deal with folks in a similar situation, from behind the counter so to speak. It really is impossible 95% of the time to qualify whether the punk kid (with parents who will get the little dear what he wants) has what it takes or the grey haired gent is for real (and not waiting for his wife getting a permanent next door). What do I try to do? I try to treat everyone with respect because pretty near everyone could be a customer. I'm not perfect and perhaps my exasperated, impatient or less than 100% attitude has nothing to do with you but rather the folks that just came in before you? I ain't perfect.
I don't think that it's very rational to make a buying decsion because your feelings have been hurt, most likely unintentionally, but if you do that's your right, you have voted/vetoed with your wallet. If you really want something, when I really want something, I press forward even if the start was rough. It is unreasonable from my perspective to get in a twist just because a perfect stranger has treated me like he doesn't even know me!
I don't think that it's very rational to make a buying decsion because your feelings have been hurt, most likely unintentionally, but if you do that's your right, you have voted/vetoed with your wallet. If you really want something, when I really want something, I press forward even if the start was rough. It is unreasonable from my perspective to get in a twist just because a perfect stranger has treated me like he doesn't even know me!
When Giovanni's Gun Shop was operating in Toronto you actually stepped into a locked cage just inside the front door. You showed them your FAC through the bars and if everything was kosher they buzzed you in. Seemed a little paranoid to me but I heard that they had experienced some robberies, hence their extra security regarding who got in.
While I don't personally agree with the no licence/no touchee rule, unfortunately it's their store so their rules.
While I don't personally agree with the no licence/no touchee rule, unfortunately it's their store so their rules.
Harrier .45
Regular
- Location
- Ontario, north of Toronto
So by your admission you would have bought the rifle if you had liked what you handled? That would have required you to walk all the way across the infinitely long parking lot to get your PAL out of your truck, wouldn't it? Exactly what difference would it have made if you had brought your PAL in with you in the first place, versus being asked to present it before you handle the gun, versus having to retrieve it to buy the gun? Sounds like a bit of faulty logic there, I'm afraid.
Truly, what is the big concern about showing your PAL in a gun shop? If you do not have a valid PAL, you should not be handling a firearm. Period. As for the incident with a customer's wife lacking a PAL, the same holds true. We cannot hand a firearm over the counter to a customer who does not hold a valid PAL, and most certainly not a Restricted firearm, for which the Chief Firearms Office has specifically demanded that we must confirm a valid PAL with Restricted endorsement before we are able to present such a firearm to any prospective customer.
Is it really that big a hassle to provide the required documentation in order to handle a firearm? Personally, I don't see the issue. By presenting a PAL I am advising the CSR behind the counter that I have been properly trained in the safe handling of firearms. Of course given the number of "trained" PAL holders who immediately take a firearm from our staff and proceed turn around and point it up the ramp into a store full of shoppers, that doesn't really say much, but for those of us who actually abide by the training that we undertook to get our PALs in the first place, it does help to break the ice and level the playing field.
Really, how troublesome is it to show your PAL at the beginning of a conversation with a gun store staff member? Is it any harder than showing the card if and when you do decide to make a purchase? Can we say "tempest in a teapot" here?
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If I had liked what I held the walk for the wallet would have been a good thing giving me time to think good thoughts, as it was I thought bad thoughts and left, never to return. ended up getting one a week later from a store that did not ask till for a pal till I said I'll take it.
Harrier .45
Regular
- Location
- Ontario, north of Toronto
Again, I don't see the logic or the concern here.
Apparently drawing a little plastic card out of your wallet and presenting it to the counter staff at the time you visited the counter was so stressful that the ordeal has scarred you for life, and you will never shop at Ellwood Epps again?
Certainly I do apologize for the severe trauma of the experience, on behalf of our entire staff.
I stopped by there yesterday, handled a few handguns, chatted up the friendly girl behind the counter (seriously well put together chassis.....but I digress), never had to show them anything. BTW, they have amazing prices on Glocks at the moment.
Italian Sporting Goods in Vancouver has a 'buzz in' killing zone between two doors. You are asked to remove your hat and sun glasses for a visual inspection before they let you in. I had the joy of pushing a friend in his wheelchair through that impasse, his leg straight out in a brace. Yes, they had been robbed and it was a safety precaution.
