Gun Show Find - Misurp Ammo - What is it?

Andy

Andy

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It is clearly 30/06 dated 1941, but R.A.F.?

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Seems to me that some of the Lend/Lease aircraft came with MG's in .30-06. Early P-40's had two MG's that fired through the propeller. The Brits had some as early as 1940.
 
My guess is that it was for testing purposes... as if it was meant for regular use then it would be linked.

Maybe some RAF guard units got lend lease Model 1917 Enfields?
 
It's of a quality that is suitable for syncronized machine guns located on the nose of aircraft so that you don't shoot off your propeller, like the Lightning and some other early US made lend lease planes I beleive. The red label was an indicator that it was not 303 Brit. Lend lease non 303 rifles has red bands around them and the ammo they used had a red band around the boxes as well.

I have Winchester 303 from 1941 and it says "not for use in syncronized guns".

I think the syncronized stuff is of a higher quality. RAF... Royal Air Force.

P
 
dont shoot that in a regular rifle, its red lable for a reason. red lable = hot MG ammo.

a M 17 would likely be ok, but i would not shoot it in anything else.
 
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The British used red bands to indicate that this was "non-standard" ammunition, the same way they used a red band around the forearm of P17s to show that they used 30-06 instead of 303. The "synchronized" bit was really just a hold-over from WW1, and meant to indicate "for MG use only", since MGs firing through a propellor arc were already out of usage by 1941.
 
Beater said:
dont shoot that in a regular rifle, its red lable for a reason. red lable = hot MG ammo.

a p14 would likely be ok, but i would not shoot it in anything else.
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Another indication of "Machine Gun use only" ammo is the crimp around the primer. Ammo intended for general rifle use normally did not have the additional crimp.
Cheers
 
From "Tetbook on Smallarms 1929" "in the case of the airfoce or "Red Label" ammunition as this grade is called from its characteritc label, particular attention is paid to immunity from hangfires, misfires andfunctioning defects un machine guns." Not a hot HV load but superior quality ammo. Hard to clear a jam in a remotely located gun and embarrassing to shoot off a propellor. Ammo was labelled as to its use in synchronised guns as late as 1945.
Heavy primer crimp was introduced on 30-06 in 1918 to prevent blown primers in Marlin MG.
 
I'm getting some odd replies here. 30-06 primer pockets are crimped, that's why Dillon and others make a tool to remove the crimp.
The P38 did have nose mounted guns BUT they were NOt .30 cal, and they DID not have a prop in front of them
The P40 had and the Apache had guns firing through the prop.
I seriously doubt that the colour of the print had anything to do with the use or the velocity of the ammunition. While rifles Like the M1917 had red bands to indicate that they were not .303, I hardly think that applies to the fodder.
You could strip MG belts and use the ammo in your M1 or Springfield so I doubt if it was any hotter than the normal ball ammo.
NO it was NOT made for testing purposes. The government does have belt loading machines.
Red label for aircraft use meant that extra care was taken in the manufacture, moreso than for ammo used in ground guns as one could clear a vickers or browning a lot easier on the ground then in the air. The homeguard did have M1915 American Vickers in 30-06
 
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well, before i shot any of it out of a garand, id put some over a crony, with a M17. you may be suprised what you find. the MG ammo is hotter stuff, any that i have shot is hotter than standard ammo by far. only stands to reason, high quality, high preasure, to ensure that the guns keep funtioning .
besides, unless you have a truckload of it, id put it on the shelf, as collectable
 
Have an extensive library of collector books and manuals on 30-06 ammo. All ball loadings, M1906, M1,M2, and other loads were meant for use in all 30 cal rifles and MG. I have never seen a reference to a hot MG only load.
 
John Sukey said:
I'm getting some odd replies here. 30-06 primer pockets are crimped, that's why Dillon and others make a tool to remove the crimp.
The P38 did have nose mounted guns BUT they were NOt .30 cal, and they DID not have a prop in front of them
The P40 had and the Apache had guns firing through the prop.
I seriously doubt that the colour of the print had anything to do with the use or the velocity of the ammunition. While rifles Like the M1917 had red bands to indicate that they were not .303, I hardly think that applies to the fodder.
You could strip MG belts and use the ammo in your M1 or Springfield so I doubt if it was any hotter than the normal ball ammo.
NO it was NOT made for testing purposes. The government does have belt loading machines.
Red label for aircraft use meant that extra care was taken in the manufacture, moreso than for ammo used in ground guns as one could clear a vickers or browning a lot easier on the ground then in the air. The homeguard did have M1915 American Vickers in 30-06
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I'm with you John, and getting quite a good laugh with all those replys..:D Sorry, but the way I figure it, if you don't actually know then get the answer before you post :bsFlag:

And no I have no clue what or why the R.A.F. designates. But someone out there knows.
 
I can tell you with certainty that the 30-06 ammo used by the Brits did indeed have a big red stripe around the box, just as the rifles did. Match the red stripe around the rifle with the red stripe around the box (or read the label) = soldier proof.

I sold a few boxes here on the site last year marked MOD, dated 1941. Still have a picture somwhere, big red stripe and all.

I beleive the guys who guarded the air strips ect had lend lease rifles in 30-06.

RAF= Royal Air Force

Not an airplane expert but pretty sure the Germans had nose guns right to the end... ME109, Folker Wolfe, not sure what the lend lease aircraft were but I think they had nose guns and a cannon in the prop.. they painted big teeth on the noses P40?
 
K98ACTION said:
I'm with you John, and getting quite a good laugh with all those replys..:D Sorry, but the way I figure it, if you don't actually know then get the answer before you post :bsFlag:

And no I have no clue what or why the R.A.F. designates. But someone out there knows.
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Yep, that is why I tend to keep my mouth shut on these issues!
 
Garand , found my copy of "Textbook of Small Arms 1929" at a gunshow. It also exists with a typo on the cover , "for" instead of "of".
"Textbook of Ammunition 1944" The War Office,also states that Red Label ammo was made for th RAF for use in aircraft MGs.
 
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