Gunnar; 45-08 different approach

[Onty]

My knowledge about semiauto pistols, including 1911 is miniscule; however I am posting this in hope that you and other more knowledgeable folks will correct me if I omitted something.

One of the loads listed on your website is 200 gr at 1350 fps. If suitable powder is available, that energy level should be the same as for 250 gr at 1200 fps, or 265 at 1165 fps; assuming that pistol could take this loads. In Guns & Ammo, 2000 ANNUAL HANDGUNS, there is a load for 45 AR from S&W M25-6.5”; Lyman 454424, 255 SWC (I think that 265 gr is the real weight), with 14.5 gr of 2400 going 1137 fps. There is no information what is the pressure, but considering that thickness of the cylinder wall on this revolver is about .065” v/s .110” on 1911 barrel wall, barrel itself is more than enough to take such pressure in strong case like 45-08. My guess is that real issue with such load would be the wear in locking lug contact area between barrel and slide, and slide and frame. Well, in that respect one of those compensators should be a good addition. Another option could be 6” slide/barrel. Heavier slide should reduce its velocity thus reducing pistol wear, and longer barrel could increase velocity up to 50 fps.

So, if I have it right, my preference for bear load would be bit slower but heavier bullet.

What is your opinion, did you try any of those 250 gr bullets? Any penetration test? Thanks.

 

[DaveGP]

If you do a search for .45 Super, you'll get some good load advice. My Super would match those 200gr velocities using cut down .45 Win Mag brass.

 

[7x61]

Hi, Onty

I'd be glad to add what I can

The heaviest bullets we have seen used in the auto have been 250's at about 1200fps, and that was not in my cases but in .45Super cases. Not as strong as the 45-08, but with more room behind the bullet for powder. One of the constraints in an auto is the short OAL mandated by what the magazine will accept and feed. You will note we don't use large charges of H110 or 2400 in these. Just no room

If used in a revolver, of course there's another whole range of bullet lengths we can explore, or the use of a slower powder in higher dosages. Seat the bullet out further in the .45ACP case and use H110 or 2400, and you can POSSIBLY get into the hot loads safely in a revolver. You may also be able to safely run the long, heavy bullets. If you stay with internal volumes consistent with tested loads in other cases, that's about as close as you can get, although revolver loads in the AR case are darn close. Just bear in mind, though that you want equivalent speeds, NOT equivalent powder charges, as your starting point, There's going to be a lot less internal volume in the 45-08 case than in the .45AR case, given the same OAL.

Interesting stuff! This is of course all assuming you have no intention of running the extra-long loads in an auto.

The reason I have not gone down this road to any great extent is that I can pick up any number of revolvers - right up to the 4 1/4" 454 Casull we were shooting today - (WOW!)- that will give me 6 rounds of much more powerful loads than anything we could ever dream of cramming into a .45 ACP sized cartridge. The benefit of the 45-08 is that it gives us a 230 flat point bullet at 1350 or a 200 at 1500 in a light, flat, carryable package, with a LOT faster follow-up shot (s), and a capacity of 11 rounds. Not to mention a fast reload if needed. In a similar sized gun to the 625, we can load .45 Colt rounds at about the same power levels as what we're proposing to try to get to in the 625, with proven loads I haven't done a lot with that particular gun, but 400 grain slugs at 1200 in the .45 Colt Blackhawk are pretty potent

Something to keep in mind is that in a revolver, the case strength is not nearly as crucial. The entire case is well supported, there is no feed ramp cutaway that might bulge or blow out, there is no extraction that may or may not happen a little earlier than wanted, with some residual pressure still there..... You MIGHT be better building warm revolver loads in regular .45ACP +P cases because of the better internal volume. Possibly not, but just a thought.

The last comment - I promise - is that I don't see the value of building a 625 type gun into a Magnum when we have plenty of those available.


Gunnar
www.armco-guns.com

 

[Onty]

Thanks Gunnar on so informative answer.

When talking about the case volume and its strength, how good would be combination of 45 Auto+P or 45 Super case (see http://www.starlinebrass.com/ ), with ramped, fully supported barrel.

Another, to me very interesting combination, would be Norinco frame, heavy slide, 6” long, with ramped bull barrel, to get as much mass as possible in order to reduce slide velocity, and, consequently, a recoil for faster follow-up shot. If I am correct, 250 at 1200 fps, with all the goodies from above, doesn’t look unreasonable.

Regards, Onty.

 

[Runt]

Hey whats up Gunner you diden't like my 4.25 " Ruger Super Red Hawk 454 Casull....lol. We'll neither do I hurts the wrist to much.....its just a work gun. But its fun to shoot with 45 colt loads. Hey Onty Gunner built me up a Spring Field Armory Operator set up to shoot his 45-08 brass and its sweet. Its what I carry in the winter when I'm out working....they are much nicer then carrying a massive revolver. I highly recommend the 45-08's....just don't ever expect to find the brass in the bush because they get thrown about ten feet or so.

 

[rainer]

Runt,maybe I should take the Ruger off your hands?!Don't like to see you getting hurt shooting that thing.-Rainer