Gunshow Find - Italian Vetterli .22 Trainer!

skirsons

skirsons

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 99.4%
178   1   1
Location
Ontario
I picked up this rare little number at the show in Woodstock today...

All matching Vetterli conversion to .22LR in 1936. The 1935 date which is also on the rifle has the suffix XIII, meaning 13th year of Mussolini's rule I believe.

Made by Beretta. Has an interesting ejector system like the WZ48. I found a similar one on an auction site.

I paid... 450.. which I think was a steal.

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/Rifles22.html

Vetterli22Trainer0.jpg
 
Last edited:
It is a .22 barrel. Obviously the rifle was much longer originally. There is some splicing of new wood in the barrel channel to accomodate the small barrel, but under the handguard it is empty space.

I'm not sure if this is a sniper trainer, because it is drilled and tapped for a scope mount, or if someone did this to it. It also has varnish on it which contributes to me thinking that it is a home-made modification.

They serial numbered almost every part of this rifle (it all matches too).
 
I wonder if thats one they issued to the "junior Fascists" Sort of like the Hitler jugend,
ie: 7 and 8 yr olds.
Anyhow, I bet its a pretty rare goodie and you were lucky to find it.:D
 
A rare gun for sure, but if a bubba has drilled and tapped it (possible but not certain - pics?), and altered the original finish (certain), its value has been reduced quite a bit. Still, for a collector of Italian Firearms, or 22 Trainers, you got a good deal.
 
Last edited:
John Sukey said:
I wonder if thats one they issued to the "junior Fascists" Sort of like the Hitler jugend,
ie: 7 and 8 yr olds.
Anyhow, I bet its a pretty rare goodie and you were lucky to find it.:D
Click to expand...

Probably. That would explain the fact that the rifle was cut down to a mini-carbine. It is incredibly light with the small barrel.

It is also "fascist dated" which I find very interesting. Mussolini actually ordered the calanders changed to reflect how many years he had been ruling instead of years since Christ.

It seems to have been converted in 1934, since "Brevetto" (brief, short) is stamped above that date, although there are three dates on the rifle.

If it was made for a youth fascist organization, I would find it odd that the other example I found was made after the death of Mussolini and the end of the war.

Thanks Il Duce, for-a my new-a rifle.
 
Andy said:
A rare gun for sure, but if a bubba has drilled and tapped it (possible but not certain - pics?), and altered the original finish (certain), its value has been reduced quite a bit. Still, for a collector of Carcanos, or 22 Trainers, you got a good deal.
Click to expand...

The thing about the drill-and-tap is that there is also a quarter inch slot machined out of the side of the receiver. The Drill-and-tapped holes aren't as neat as I would think a factory installation would be.
 
Isn't Brevetto above the date a reference to being patented? Perhaps relating to the .22 conversion?
There is the "moscheto ballila", the down sized youth carbine, which was intended to fire only blank cartridges. What is the length of pull? If it was intended for youth training, like the moscheto ballila, would not the stock be shortened?
 
It's entirely possible that Brevetto could mean that. I should ask my good friend who wrote "From Fascism to Democracy" about Italy after the war - because he's a specialist in the area of Italy and speaks fluent Italian. I think the youth organization were called the "Fascisti"

The distance from the trigger to the butt is 13". Comfortable for me.
 
I thought I could add some detail here to how the conversion was likely done:

This rifle probably began as a Vetterli 1870/87/15 adapted to 6.5 carcano in the Great War.

1. The barrel was replaced with a .22 barrel while the shank area of the original barrel was retained from the rear sight back.
2. The wood stock was cut back and modified to accept a nosecap and barrel-band spring. The handguard and barrel band were installed.
3. The magazine and housing were removed and replaced with a sheet steel cover. A follower was welded into place.
3. The bolt was cut back to accomodate the protruding barrel and soldiered shut and re-drilled off centre
4. An extractor was fashioned to form part of the chamber. A long hole was drilled parallel to the barrel to accomodate the spring and rod.
5. An angled piece of steel was inserted at an angle and a screw securing the metal acted as a bolt stop.
6. A new fixed rear sight was added

This list is by no means complete, but is what was done as far as I can tell.
 
skirsons said:
I thought I could add some detail here to how the conversion was likely done:

This rifle probably began as a Vetterli 1870/87/15 adapted to 6.5 carcano in the Great War.

1. The barrel was replaced with a .22 barrel while the shank area of the original barrel was retained from the rear sight back.
2. The wood stock was cut back and modified to accept a nosecap and barrel-band spring. The handguard and barrel band were installed.
3. The magazine and housing were removed and replaced with a sheet steel cover. A follower was welded into place.
3. The bolt was cut back to accomodate the protruding barrel and soldiered shut and re-drilled off centre
4. An extractor was fashioned to form part of the chamber. A long hole was drilled parallel to the barrel to accomodate the spring and rod.
5. An angled piece of steel was inserted at an angle and a screw securing the metal acted as a bolt stop.
6. A new fixed rear sight was added

This list is by no means complete, but is what was done as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...

I handled that rifle yesterday and I can say it's a very nice little package...a nice score!
 
I restored the original finish on the wood by chemically stripping it until the varnish came off with a rag. I also put screws in the tapped-holes on the receiver, even if just to cover them up. They match nicely. I noticed even the stock parts are serialed (matching of course!)

I will post the pics on the first page of this thread so I can delete the old pics.
 
Last edited:
I've been trying to complete the transfer, and it appears I might have the only one in Canada. There may be another, but not listed under any logical category that me or the firearms centre could think of.

I have to send them pics!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom