H&K MR308 coming soon!
- Thread starter elektrobug
- Start date
Argh. I really hope Robarm brings the SPR-V to civilians some day.
I've drooled over it since the first time I saw it. I dont know why the left it as SOCOM/Military only weapon after getting that contract because it had such potential as a civilian product
Dude, no idea who told you RobArm won the SPR-V -- no one won.
It popped up and industry had 60 days to deliver, our SR-47, The RobArm, and two others.
The SPR-V program wanted a M4 muscle memory platform, that was in 7.62x39 and could take ALL Ak mags (hint not all Ak's take all Ak mags).
The unit conducting the trial found all samples wanting for some reasons, that is when SOCOM got into the SCAR program.
All piston guns that do no have a ful length bolt rail to guide their travel will be influenced by the energy imparted by the piston.
As you can see by the above picture as opposed to a DI gun, where the gasses come thru the gas tube come in the carrier key and into the bolt carrier pressing on the bolt and unlocking and pushing the gun rearward.
The Hk relies on a sharp impact to the bolt key. This is off center from the direction of travel - now if the carrier was fully supported, it would simply move rearward, however since the AR carrier is not fully supported by bolt guides, the top impact will try to make the rear of the carrier push down.
As far as high round count guns go, lets just say I am confident that our 11.5 SR16E3 bolt will go longer than a Hk416...
It popped up and industry had 60 days to deliver, our SR-47, The RobArm, and two others.
The SPR-V program wanted a M4 muscle memory platform, that was in 7.62x39 and could take ALL Ak mags (hint not all Ak's take all Ak mags).
The unit conducting the trial found all samples wanting for some reasons, that is when SOCOM got into the SCAR program.
All piston guns that do no have a ful length bolt rail to guide their travel will be influenced by the energy imparted by the piston.
As you can see by the above picture as opposed to a DI gun, where the gasses come thru the gas tube come in the carrier key and into the bolt carrier pressing on the bolt and unlocking and pushing the gun rearward.
The Hk relies on a sharp impact to the bolt key. This is off center from the direction of travel - now if the carrier was fully supported, it would simply move rearward, however since the AR carrier is not fully supported by bolt guides, the top impact will try to make the rear of the carrier push down.
As far as high round count guns go, lets just say I am confident that our 11.5 SR16E3 bolt will go longer than a Hk416...
IMHO I think that a DI or Piston weapon system has to be designed as such from the ground up. The HK adaptation of the M4 to a gas piston system while a very good one might not have the same long term performance as a piston system designed as such from the very start.
I havn't see anything as to how many rounds went through a 416 in testing, but USMC are not known to be light on equipment. Think 16.5 lb 308 sniper rifle.
Early Hk416's did that, a lot of the new ones are cracking bolts within 5k...
So what is it giving you a Colt won't?
Sorry I cannot provide video, it proprietary as we use it as a method of determining several aspects of firearm desing.
I can tell you even in a DI gun that the bolt carrier does not go straight rearward it does bounce a bit in the upper due to tolerances, however it flies like a laser when compared to all the M4 family piston systems I have seen.
As for the USMC IAR, its not a stock Hk416, and I am sure Hk (and everyone else) took extra care with trial guns, the heavier barrel and some other differences in the bolt and carrier likely helped.
The one thing to remember about trial guns, is they are generally not production guns - especially when talking about a new or unique system.
I'm not telling anyone not to buy A specific system, I was just relating some of what I have been told from the British trials, (where a DI gun won over the piston guns tested), as well what I have seen from some DoD testing, and in house testing.
I was led to believe that HK did their own high speed video of the M4 when developing the 416. They did not like what they saw and how the M4 was locking / unlocking when firing. They felt it was unsafe and corrected this with the 416.
I'd like to know how many rounds are through the HK416 when it has failure compaired to the Colt M4. All guns can and will fail but I'd dare say that Colt M4's will fail much sooner and much more often when samples of a few thousand of each are compared.
I'd also like to see proof of any changes that were made to the bolt of the HK 416 IAR.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the HK 416 IAR is just a regular 416 with a heavy 16" barrel. I do realize that, if given the chance, any company will have their tech. people go over the guns submitted to a test.
Rich
I'd like to know how many rounds are through the HK416 when it has failure compaired to the Colt M4. All guns can and will fail but I'd dare say that Colt M4's will fail much sooner and much more often when samples of a few thousand of each are compared.
I'd also like to see proof of any changes that were made to the bolt of the HK 416 IAR.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the HK 416 IAR is just a regular 416 with a heavy 16" barrel. I do realize that, if given the chance, any company will have their tech. people go over the guns submitted to a test.
Rich
SPR-V Program
We'll Mr. Industry Expert, you need a little correction. Robinson Armament won the SPR-V program. The Robinson SPR-V smoked the SR-47 gun in the competition. The competition took place at Blackwater. The contract was IDIQ (indefinite quantity, indefinite delivery) and it's true that no additional rifles were purchased. Every single operator that shot the SPR-V in the trials wanted it.
The rifles were designed, tested, and made in 60 days. It was an almost impossible task. The RA SPR-V was not perfect by any means. There were a few small flaws that could have been easily corrected. However, the brains at Crane never liked the rifle to begin with. The soldiers who shot it all wanted it and kept asking their command where the rifles were. It was a real shame because the SPR-V by RA would have been a superior system.
Most don't know this but the RA SPR-V was really the rifle that got the SCAR idea going. I as involved in the whole thing and was at Crane when Robinson was named the winner. So get your facts straight.
Dude, no idea who told you RobArm won the SPR-V -- no one won.
It popped up and industry had 60 days to deliver, our SR-47, The RobArm, and two others.
The SPR-V program wanted a M4 muscle memory platform, that was in 7.62x39 and could take ALL Ak mags (hint not all Ak's take all Ak mags).
The unit conducting the trial found all samples wanting for some reasons, that is when SOCOM got into the SCAR program.
All piston guns that do no have a ful length bolt rail to guide their travel will be influenced by the energy imparted by the piston.
As you can see by the above picture as opposed to a DI gun, where the gasses come thru the gas tube come in the carrier key and into the bolt carrier pressing on the bolt and unlocking and pushing the gun rearward.
The Hk relies on a sharp impact to the bolt key. This is off center from the direction of travel - now if the carrier was fully supported, it would simply move rearward, however since the AR carrier is not fully supported by bolt guides, the top impact will try to make the rear of the carrier push down.
As far as high round count guns go, lets just say I am confident that our 11.5 SR16E3 bolt will go longer than a Hk416...
We'll Mr. Industry Expert, you need a little correction. Robinson Armament won the SPR-V program. The Robinson SPR-V smoked the SR-47 gun in the competition. The competition took place at Blackwater. The contract was IDIQ (indefinite quantity, indefinite delivery) and it's true that no additional rifles were purchased. Every single operator that shot the SPR-V in the trials wanted it.
The rifles were designed, tested, and made in 60 days. It was an almost impossible task. The RA SPR-V was not perfect by any means. There were a few small flaws that could have been easily corrected. However, the brains at Crane never liked the rifle to begin with. The soldiers who shot it all wanted it and kept asking their command where the rifles were. It was a real shame because the SPR-V by RA would have been a superior system.
Most don't know this but the RA SPR-V was really the rifle that got the SCAR idea going. I as involved in the whole thing and was at Crane when Robinson was named the winner. So get your facts straight.
Ok Kev, I'm with you here, screw HK ...so where are the KA SR-25s that you promised us
They're here!
https://shopquestar.com/shopping65/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=288&cat=Knights+SR-25
Welcome from Crane. After owning, and shooting a couple of RA designs, I find it interesting that they won a military contract. Do you have a public source on this?
kolob is Alex Robinson owner of Robarm. I am sure if he wants he can find the documentation. Which we all would like to see.
I'd love to see the IDIQ from Crane...
If anything the Sig552 started the push for SCAR. We made M4 style lowers that used USGI mags for the Sig552' when the unit used 552's.
Now if the RA gun was the push for SCAR, why did LTC ret. Gus Taylor at Crane disqualify you guys from the get go?
I saw the video of Smith & Wesson's answer to the bolt tilt with piston problem. They enlarged the rear of the bolt carrier. Basically just makes it a tighter tolerance and therefore, I guess, less tilt/slop...
Anyone have anything to add/include/experience with the S&W system?
What say ye...
Anyone have anything to add/include/experience with the S&W system?
What say ye...
