H&R Ulra Slug Hunter 12ga - Accuracy at 100 meters?

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So I bought an H&R Ultra Slug Hunter 12ga recently (used) ... and I was impressed how well this cheap gun was made. And then last week I installed a rifle scope, and I went to the shooting range today for the first time with the gun.

HandR_Ultra_Slug_Hunter_12ga.jpg


I sighted it in with some cheaper Federal ammo (Federal Power Shock 1 oz sabots) and they gave me 8 inch groups at 100 meter. Then I tried 4 different sabots, Winchester Dual Bond and Partition Gold, Federal Vital-Shok 300gr and Hornady SST. None of them grouped better than 7 to 8 inches groups.

I was wondering what is happening ... and I was scratching my head ... the Hornady SSTs did not even hit the paper .... did my scope loose zero? Then I checked that all the screws are tight ... etc. ... and then I was close to giving up and calling it a day.

And then I tried one last brand ... Remington AccuTips ... and BINGO .... suddenly I had a decent group without changing anything on the shotgun. I was able to get a 4 inch / 5 shot group at 100m, and I guess that would be good enough for hunting deer out to that range.

HandR_Ultra_Slug_Hunter_12ga_100m.JPG



Now my question: Is there still room for improvement ... I mean is it possible to achieving tighter groups. Or is 4 inches at 100m more or less what I should expect from shooting 12ga sabot slugs at that distance with that gun?

And just as a side note, I know it is not my shooting style .... :) ... and it is not the scope ... it is solidly mounted ... I checked the screws and the scope several times ....

I shot around 60 rounds today without cleaning the gun. Would cleaning in between improve accuracy? The barrel on the Ultra Slug Hunter is pretty heavy and did not heat up much ... so I don't think there is anything to gain there.

Has anybody any insight/experience with achieving tight groups with sabots? If yes, what is your set up ... what are the groups you are consistently getting .... and what is the insight you gained?

Is anybody shooting out to 200 meters with sabot slugs? If yes, would love to hear about your experience.
 
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I had owned the USH in 20ga. Very accurate. Grouped 1.5inch consistently @ 100 yards with 2 3/4 Rem Accutips. The scoped slug gun weighed 10+lbs so I eventually sold that and acquired the Savage 220. Rem Accutips generally tend to perform very well in a variety of slug guns.

I ought to add - the 12ga produces considerable felt recoil, therefore, fatigue from a prolonged session may have loosened the level of concentration needed to achieve tight groups provided everything else is in place. Suggest go back and try the Accutips again (both 2 3/4 and 3in). Prior to that best to thoroughly clean out the plastic deposit from the bore. The other sabot that you may wish to try is the Federal Trophy Copper.

Will post a target of the USH if I can find one as it has been quite a while. Anyway, here's an example of AccuTip performance using the Savage for the first time last year - I haven't had any opportunity since then to go back and properly zero the slug gun. The vertical impact holes at the left edge of the paper are actually Hornady SST. :)

 
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I would be cleaning the barrel after every 5 to 10 shots. That plastic from the sabot plugs the rifling up pretty quick. That was an expensive ass day you had.
 
Twist rate. The 12 ga has a 1 in 35 twist compared to the 20 ga which is 1 in 28. Try a slower slug like the remington copper solids. The savage 220 has a 1 in 25 twist so it will like a faster slug.
 
Ahsan: Thanks for sharing your experience. That was very interesting. And yes, you might be right … I know my shoulder did hurt quite a bit in the end … and that might have had an impact on my shooting. I am definitely thinking about another session with just Remington Accu Tips in 2 ¾” and 3” and at different distances.

Winchested: I cleaned the gun today and to be honest I could not find any evidence of plastic deposits. The first 2 swipes down the barrel looked like powder residue … and all after that had a brown color to it … as if it is the blueing that I am brushing off (yes, it looks as if the barrel is blued on the inside). There were definitely no lead deposits … When I am cleaning my Remington 870 smoothbore after having shot rifled slugs there is this grey smeary paste coming out … it is all lead.

And yes, with this gun, you know you had great day when your shoulder and wallet feel the pain … :)

Pbonura: Thanks for the input about the twist rate. Yes I was thinking about that. I did shoot the Federal Power Shock 1 oz sabots … they are heavier and slower … 1500 fps … and they did not group well. Hmmmm … ok, I might try some other slower sabots in the future.

There is one thought or theory that I need to test. All the flyers seem to have gone to the left or down … At the shooting range the cubicles or stalls (not sure if this is the right term) were set up to shoot through a sort of a tunnel to prevent accidental discharges from going anywhere but down range. And with my shooting position I was close to the right wall of this “tunnel”. Now from some high speed video footage I saw it seems the sabot opens right after leaving the muzzle. So the sabot would open up and separate within this “tunnel”. Could that have an impact on accuracy? I am wondering … ?? Hmmm … I guess there is only one way to find out … I guess my next shooting session will be out in the open …
 
So, I went out to my property yesterday to shoot the Ultra Slug Hunter once more … this time stocked up with Remington AccuTips …

Here my observations ….

1.) Best I got was a 4” group at 120m … so I guess that confirms the group size.

HandR_UlraSlugHunter_120m_AccuTips_3inches.JPG


2.) Remington AccuTips 3” seem to be more accurate than the 2 ¾” ones out of this gun.

3.) I shot around 35 rounds, all AccuTips …. and had 4 shells stuck in the chamber that would not eject. I had to cut a branch from a tree and stick it down the barrel to get the shells to eject. :-(

4.) I had one misfire … first time this happens to me. The firing pin struck the primer but the powder did not ignite.

2016-05-22%2009.03.26.jpg


6.) The AccuTips did group quite well, but from time to time I would get a flyer that would impact much much lower than the others. And I am talking about 10 inches to several feet lower at a distance of 120m. I had one target 4 feet above the ground and the bullet hit the dirt in front of the target … A 4 feet drop … ???

All of this makes me wonder about Remington quality …. ??????

7.) And it seems that my scope lost zero through the course of shooting 30 rounds. It is a Vortex Crossfire II 3-9x50 illuminated.

Here the first group of the day I shot at 50m:

HandR_UlraSlugHunter_50m_AccuTips.JPG


And here the last two groups of the day. I did not modify or adjust anything on the scope.

HandR_UlraSlugHunter_50m_AccuTips_3inches.JPG


Voila …. that is where I am with that gun ….

Thoughts? Comments? Input?
 
Pulling to the left hmmm. If you're left handed perhaps you are pulling/flinching. After 35 rounds I think I would be too. My light tracker kicks harder than my 300winmag.
Otherwise did the wind pick up? Perhaps some fouling? Did you clean while shooting? Those rifled barrels foul fast IMHO. Hard to believe that the scope lost zero.

I've never had any FTF/FTE issues with Accutips. I don't know what to say there - my stock is a bit older. Those fliers are weird too.

Still accuracy inline with my experience.
 
Personally, I have never shot a rifled barreled 12ga. However, given the trajectory involved, I think it's a big chunk of slug to hurl out to that distance with any reasonable form of near-precision accuracy. Wonder if that group might shrink a bit further @ 100 yards i.e. if you haven't already tried that distance. The USH barrels are very heavy and don't heat up easily and given the current temps outdoors I don't think that was an issue in your case. This is in view of the fact that I had placed a lot of slugs downrange with my 20ga USH during hot summer conditions and the accuracy never wavered. Barrel cleaning and optics are components you may have to address.

Anyway, as stated, 4 inch is still well inside big game vitals and will effectively do the job.

In comparison to a 12ga, the 20 is quite flat shooting but I feel 150 yards is max long distance for most scenarios using a rifled barreled slug gun. Having said that, I'm aware of someone who took two Whitetails with a Savage 220 during the 2015 Controlled hunt in ON - the first one he shot at 168 yards and the second deer bolted and stopped where he dropped that at 212 yards.
 
Safehunter: I did not clean the gun in between shots. I think for my next shooting session with the gun I will try to pass a lubed cleaning patch through the barrel and before every shot. I will see what happens …. and I will give the scope another chance.

For recoil, the Ultra Slug Hunter has a very, very heavy barrel. As Ahsan mentioned, the gun is HEAVY. I wouldn’t want to carry it all day stalking. So, the recoil is not too bad. I have a Remington 870 with a Hastings rifled barrel and red dot and the recoil is much more noticeable. I couldn’t shoot 30 or 50 rounds with that setup … :-(

Ahsan Ahmed: Thanks for sharing. At my property I can only shoot at 120m or 50m …. 100m is not possible. I have to admit that the swarm of mosquitos around me did not help with me concentrating on the shooting. So, maybe there is still room for improvement with the groups. I will see in a future session at the range.

But what I am really concerned about are the flyers with the AccuTips, … the stuck shells in the chamber … and the misfire. And I haven’t noticed this with other ammunition with the exception of the Hornady SSTs … I only shot 3 SSTs but they all got stuck in the chamber.
 
On the note of plastic buildup. From my experience it can be in the barrel you will not see it. I live on the edge of a shotgun only area and the LGS sells slugs by the case in the fall and hears constantly how my gun worked fine and then went to hell and he recommends a bore snake every 4-5 shots(I know, don,t start) and I have seen the difference in groups from others shooting. Plastic buildup can be a slow thing and you have been doing a lot of shooting and do you know how much shooting was done with it previously.

Now my plastic buildup experience goes like this. I shoot muzzleloaders/sabots. A few years back my TC Encore started consistently throwing flyers for no apparent reason. cleaned and lubed as i had for years and the problem persisted. Upon consultation with the local muzzleloading messiah he suggested plastic buildup which I denied and showed him the barrel. Yep looks spotless but watch this. He used Sweets 7.62 bore cleaner and you could literally see the plastic peeling off the rifling and this was after using a tornado brush vigorously an hour before. After about 4 patches of this the gun was back to it's laser like normal. Now at the end of the season it gets the Sweets. Only problem I can only find it in the US. I have also used the Sweets on muzzleloaders that guys swore were shot out and brought them back to new accuracy all from plastic buildup
 
Hunter148: Thanks for sharing your experience ... that was very interesting. Yes, when I look through the barrel it is shiny ... shiny ... I can't see any spots or anything that would look like buildup or a deposit ... and when cleaning the patches come out pretty clean.

Ok, I think I will give Sweets a try. I found a place that sells it in Canada and I just ordered a bottle.

http://www.4gt.ca/sweets-7-62-bore-cleaning-solvent-200ml-7oz/

I will clean the barrel with sweets and then do another session at the range.
I guess we will see .... stay tuned ....
 
Thanks for the Canadian source on the Sweets. That's the thing it barrel looks perfect but the plastic forms a slick shiny coating, however thin and then the fliers started That and I have noticed on gun that are really bad is the corners of the rifling almost seem rounded. Barely noticeable but after the Sweets it just seems more defined.

Follow the instructions on this stuff and I would not get it anywhere near anything of value. It is strong stuff and used it on an old cooey that the barrel was literally rusted closed. I think it spent a good part of its' life standing up on an open tractor. After kerosene and driving a stainless rod through to break up the rust I figured it was pooched as it looked like a sewer pipe inside the barrel. Plugged the breech, filled up with Sweets, came back in 15 and flushed.

Rifling looked brand new to my amazement and I was able to refinish and return the gun to a very surprised owner who thought it was not even fit for parts. The stuff works better than any other solvent I have used but is effective. Good luck
 
Ok, here is an update .... after testing some 22LR chamber adapters in the H&R USH ... I had to clean the barrel and I used Sweets. Ufffff .... that stuff stinks ... and is strong .... :-(

I coated the barrel inside twice with Sweets ... and each time let it sit for 15 min and then used a copper/bronze brush. But patches afterwards came out clear ... no signs of a plastic deposit.

Hmmmmmmm ..... ?????
 
I wasn't there to watch you shoot but from extensive experience I have learned that when shots by a right-handed shooter go low and/or to the right it means a flinch - the shooter lifted his head sightly - or a lot - off the stock. I doubt Remington ammo is that inconsistent.
 
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