H-S Precision: Great products, not-so-great service?

[Scocou]

Hi Group;

Not intending to start a flame-fest, just wondering what other people's experience has been with H-S Precision. My interaction began after I decided to acquire an H-S Precision bottom metal/ detachable 10 round magazine assembly for my Remington 700P.

First contact was to H-S in an attempt to place an order. I received a terse reply, "We don't deal out of country - talk to your local supplier", full stop. OK, would've been helpful to direct me to one, but no biggie - I'll look around. After a few emails to various Canadian dealers I found one willing to special order my kit (cheers to P&D, fantastic outfit).

Second communication with H-S is to verify the .308 or similar is the correct part to order for my 6.8mm SPC cartridge. Yes, says their rep, that is the correct item - I even included their part # to be sure, again confirmed by same.

Fast-forward a few weeks, package arrives (thanks again P&D, fast special order delivery). I drop a quick email to H-S and ask the correct feed-lip widths to tweak the mag for 6.8mm rounds. The same rep (starts with E... ends with d) provides requested dimensions. I throw my micrometer on the mag and am baffled, it is apparently already tweaked to the correct widths for 6.8mm.

Well, it didn't take too long to fill the mag and see that something was wrong, the rounds just spilled out and would not be grabbed by the closing bolt. So I charge it with some 7.62 and it works like a charm.

A polite email is then sent by me describing the issue (again to E*d) and he decides to actually speak with a tech before replying this time. Oops, seems he provided some bum info, I actually need the 22-250 mag. In his defense, he offered to have me send the mag to them in the US (at my cost) and he'll swap it for the correct one. Hmm... seems helpful, maybe he's not so bad.

Disappointment firmly sets in after attempting to find the model number for their 10 round 22-250 magazine and discovering it doesn't exist. Ho-hum, I sold the works on the EE at a loss to save the trouble of further (lack of) communication.

For the record - the product was just as high quality as I expected, further I love the H-S stock that came with my 700P.

Can anyone restore my faith in this company's customer service? Has anyone had dealings with these guys that can make me confident about ordering another (proper) assembly from them? Granted I won't get the mag I want but that bottom metal was sweet...

Thanks for listening either way, I feel better already.

Cheers!

 

[Mystic Precision]

It is unfortunate that the tech person didn't just look up the info before giving an answer. There is a very real possibility that the 22/250 mag WILL NOT feed the 6.8 SPC. The case base is no different then the 308.

If you look at the case dimensions of the SPC, it is different from ALL standard cartridges used in the US. For the AR, there are special mags that have been designed to properly feed the SPC.

Originally, the thought was to stuff them into 223 mags and save the Govt a bunch of cash. Didn't work. However, if you need to choose a mag to try, the 223 mag is your best chance of success.

At the very least, you can make the lips wider and play with the follower to actually fit. I have made a 223 mag feed the 7.62X39 and the SPC is way easier to fit. Another hurdle may be the rib that is placed in the mag sides to keep the cases in place.

My understanding is that Rem is the only rifle manf producing bolt rifles in this chamber. Look at their mag and follower (ie buy them) and see how they are sized.

Copy as necessary....

Jerry

PS if you can get your hands on AR SPC mags, maybe you can cut and weld up something to fit/feed in a Rem bottom metal.

 

[Scocou]

Hi Jerry, thanks for taking the time to read my post, thinking about it and providing a reasoned technical response. I have indeed thought about some of the things you mention. I will address them in the event you may find it interesting, and in the unlikely event others find themselves in the same situation.

First, regarding the case base, I do not believe this will be a problem but am not certain. Removing the factory (non-detachable) magazine box from the rifle reveals it to be a .308/7.62 box, with the addition of a shim/ spacer to reduce the inside length to match the OAL of the 6.8mm cartridge.

To the H-S unit: I agree that theoretically one should be able to tweak the feed lips to suit, but there is a problem with this I didn't foresee. Due to their feeding system being a center-feed design it is simple to adjust the lips to be slightly less than the cartridge width, but herein also lies the problem. When reducing the width one is also lowering the height of the on-deck cartridge, thereby preventing the bolt face from engaging the rear of the cartridge and feeding same into the chamber.

Their reason to use a 22-250 mag seemed to satisfy this logic, and somewhat reinforced my confidence in their tech as it jibed with my assessment of the problem. Simply stated, the 22-250 box was described by their tech as having longer feed lips than the .308 counterpart. My concern with the 22-250 mag is that the feed lips may actually be too long and prevent forward travel of the bolt. This could likely be resolved by cutting the lips to suit, I wish I knew this would work though.

Regarding acquiring a Remington unit for study, I think I have gone as far down this road as possible by examining the included fixed-box and follower. Agreed that they seem to be the only manufacturer producing a bolt-gun in this cartridge, however their offerings are very limited. Unless I am mistaken they only produced the 6.8mm as a 700P limited, non-catalog batch. I also heard they made a carbine (750?) but believe both were only offered with a fixed mag. The factory mag and follower are, unfortunately, a staggered type setup with a tilt-up follower (I am unsure if all 700's use this design). This limits what I can glean from their unit to basically nil.

Since I already sold the $500 kit for $450 and paid $15 postage to get it to the buyer, I am out of pocket $65 before I start. That, coupled with the fact they don't offer a 10 rounder for 22-250 leaves me luke warm about proceeding along these lines. I suppose trying a .223 mag might be the best option, at least it will be easy to sell if things don't work out. I will ask their tech if the feed lips on this mag are likely to be long enough and proceed accordingly.

Your suggestion to use a 6.8mm AR-type mag is probably my best bet, it will at least provide some useful info. The only downside to this is my original reason for buying the H-S unit is because I was grossed-out by the poor quality of the factory metal.

Again, thanks for your response and I hope you (or others) might find this interesting and/ or helpful. I am also looking forward in hearing about anyone else's experience with H-S before giving them any more dough.

Cheers!

It is unfortunate that the tech person didn't just look up the info before giving an answer. There is a very real possibility that the 22/250 mag WILL NOT feed the 6.8 SPC. The case base is no different then the 308.

If you look at the case dimensions of the SPC, it is different from ALL standard cartridges used in the US. For the AR, there are special mags that have been designed to properly feed the SPC.

Originally, the thought was to stuff them into 223 mags and save the Govt a bunch of cash. Didn't work. However, if you need to choose a mag to try, the 223 mag is your best chance of success.

At the very least, you can make the lips wider and play with the follower to actually fit. I have made a 223 mag feed the 7.62X39 and the SPC is way easier to fit. Another hurdle may be the rib that is placed in the mag sides to keep the cases in place.

My understanding is that Rem is the only rifle manf producing bolt rifles in this chamber. Look at their mag and follower (ie buy them) and see how they are sized.

Copy as necessary....

Jerry

PS if you can get your hands on AR SPC mags, maybe you can cut and weld up something to fit/feed in a Rem bottom metal.

 

[Scocou]

Thinking about this further, I believe you are correct that .223 is way to go. Since the 6.8mm is a thicker case than .223, I would need to widen the lips, thereby raising the cartridge relative to the bolt. At worst I should only have to cut the lips to prevent interference with bolt travel. Also they actually make a 10 round .223mag! Thanks again!

 

[Mystic Precision]

One of the main reasons 223 mags failed to house the SPC was that the case was wide enough to hit the internal ribs causing the mags to bulge ie not go into the AR mag well or be easily removed (amoungst other maladies).

You will likely not see this problem as the HS metal doesn't enclose the mag body all the way up to the base of the action - at least shouldn't be as tight.

So for the 223 mag, I propose these positives:

Already blocked to the right length
feed lips long enough to support case well
lips can be easily reduced to allow a fatter case to stick up

Negatives:

Mag body may bulge causing functioning issues
follower is not ideally set up so there will be reduced capacity
stacking issues may cause cases to dive and not rise properly in the mag.

The follower and spring issue can be resolved with a bit of engineering/machining. If you have issues with mag bulge - not so easy.,

If you know someone that is very talented in TIG welding, you can build up the lips, on the 22/250 mag, closer together AND still allow the case to sit high enough to be picked up by the bolt. You will not have a mag bulging issue and stacking should be better then in the 223 mag (follower already designed for a fatter case).

Ultimately, you will have a mag specific to the SPC. The fact that you don't already have a drop in solution, tells you how popular this cartridge is in the market place.

I wondered if you had a SPC Rem. You have all the mag info you are ever going to get. I assume it does feed properly?

Jerry

PS if you really feel discouraged with all this expense and headache, why not just sell the Rem, buy yourself a 223 Savage with center feed det mag, spin on an SPC match barrel and go for it? The rifle will cost you the same as the HS bottom metal and mods.