h322 or imr4198 for .308

mwjones

mwjones

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
158   0   0
Location
PEI
Hey guys. Went to LGS today and found that they have some h322 and imr4198 in stock. Looking to work up a load for .308. 168gr bthp match bullets, 24" 1-10 barrel.

Of these two powders, which would you use? Quikload spits out some promising numbers for both powders, approaching 2700fps on the top end, with decent case filling (85% or thereabuts). The only differences seem to be in a couple characteristics. 4198 is supposedly extremely temperature tolerant, but it a LONG extruded stick and probably won't meter well in my measure. h322 says it's the worlds best benchrest powder and is very short sticks that meters well, but doesn't say anything about temperature tolerance.


What are your ideas/experiences?
 
4198 is a bit on the fast side for any bullet in 308 over 120 grains.

There are better powders than either of these for the 308, but the H322 would get my nod.

Regards, Dave.
 
I was thinking the same. I had great success with 4895 but found it didn't meter well through my uniflow. The 4198 seems to have longer grains so I can't imagine it would be any better. I've been shooting 44 grains of BL-C(2) with excellent success as well, but I have about a 1/4lb left and can't find any more.
 
Forget Quikload. It is not the place to be getting load data.
No 168 grain data for either powder on Hodgdon's site or on Reloader's Nest. Limited 150 grain H322 data on both sites. Hodgdon very likely did not test 4198 with 168's.
Case filling is irrelevant. So is how well a powder 'meters'. If you want match grade ammo, you weigh every powder charge. No meters or throwers involved.
 
I find Quick Load is great for rough estimates. There are ways to tweak it to be far more accurate but it's a lot of work (load ammo, chrony it, adjust the burn rate in QL until you match the FPS, might have to try with 2-3 different loads for a single powder, etc.)
I still prefer going off of published load data and it appears H322 isn't recommended for anything over 155gr. It's a tad fast for the heavier bullets.
I've used H4198 in 308 for reduced cast loads but nothing full power.

Instead of experimenting with sub-optimal powders that may never give you very good results I'd try to source some more suitable powders. 4064, Varget, 4166, 4895, etc.
If I'm loading ammo for accuracy, every powder charge gets weighed. I use an electric dispenser currently which works for mediocre-match which suits my needs but for better loads it's best to throw 80-90% charges and trickle up to the full load on a proven scale.
 
Both powders would be real good for 125 gr ammo at full power or down loaded.

Neither would be worthwhile for 168 gr match bullets. You want a medium speed powder between 3031 and 4350. There are a lot of them.
 
Nobody said I wanted match grade ammo :) I just happen have bullets that the manufacturer calls "match" :)

I realize published data for h322 stops at 150s. I also realize that I load 42 grains of BL-C(2) in a 6.5x55 with 129gr bullets, which produces moa consistency, and there's no load for that either. Hell, I even load 200gr bullets in a 303 with 13 grains of red dot. Realize that before the 80s there really were no load manuals.

I'll tell you what, though... If you can get me some Varget, BL-c(2), 4895 or 4064 to my door for less than $50/lb taxes in, I'll be interested. Otherwise, I'll have to make do with what is available /shrug

The Hodgdon 25th Edition lists loads with H322 in .308 Win for bullets up to 180 grains. I was just looking for experiences.
 
Last edited:
mwjones said:
Nobody said I wanted match grade ammo :) I just happen have bullets that the manufacturer calls "match" :)

I realize published data for h322 stops at 150s. I also realize that I load 42 grains of BL-C(2) in a 6.5x55 with 129gr bullets, which produces moa consistency, and there's no load for that either. Hell, I even load 200gr bullets in a 303 with 13 grains of red dot. Realize that before the 80s there really were no load manuals.

I'll tell you what, though... If you can get me some Varget, BL-c(2), 4895 or 4064 to my door for less than $50/lb taxes in, I'll be interested. Otherwise, I'll have to make do with what is available /shrug

The Hodgdon 25th Edition lists loads with H322 in .308 Win for bullets up to 180 grains. I was just looking for experiences.
Click to expand...

OK. Now I understand the question.

They are almost the same speed powder. H322 is easier to work with.

4198 32-to 34

H322 33 to 35
 
[QUOTE=mwjones;11385355 "------------------------ Realize that before the 80s there really were no load manuals.-------------."

You are playing with words, with the word, "Manual."
At least as far back as the 1950s, every powder manufacturer had either a single page, or small pamphlet of loading information for all rifles of the day, with choices of different bullet weights. These were distributed free, through retail outlets that sold guns and gun related material.
Later, what was originally single, or folded page loading sheets, became little pamphlets. Looking at some I have, I see a du Pont single page folded to provide four sides for loading charts. All centre fire rifles and pistols are shown.
I have a larger du Pont pamphlet (book) called new edition, probably from the 1970s and it has 40 pages, but over half is devoted to shotgun, with the rest rifle and pistol.
I have no end of Norma loading data, going back to the first edition of the Norma Gunbugs Guide, 25 pages with all instructions required for a non reloader, or even non shooter, to start from scratch and safely load his ammunition.
Also, from about the 1970s, I have a neat little Hodgdon pocket size pamphlet of 31 pages, covering reloading of all their suitable powders in shotgun, rifle and pistol.
From the same time era I have a glossy little writing paper size book by Winchester of 33 pages, showing a page of how to do it and a list of 21 reloading precautions, covering their powder of the day (wish we could get some of it now) for shotgun, rifle and pistol.
I could go on to some length here, but will just mention that in the Ellwood Epps catalogues of the mid 60s, they had full loading information sheets!
There have been a lot of new powders come on the market in very recent years, but all the old stand by powders that we use every day, had printed loads for any rifle of the day, that are still so in use today! Sorry, but there is just no new "recipe" for any rifle calibre or powder and bullet weight, that was around then and still in use, that can be found in any of your voluptuous modern loading manuals!
Don't for a minute think the handloaders of yester year were deprived of loading information.
 
Last edited:
You're right, I was playing a bit there differentiating between the formal volumes we know today as manuals :) The point I was trying to make is that before that time, a lot of experimentation was going on. If everyone stuck to the standard recipes, we wouldn't have a .270 and .44 mag to play around with :)

H4831 said:
" You are playing with words, with the word, "Manual."
At least as far back as the 1950s, every powder manufacturer had either a single page, or small pamphlet of loading information for all rifles of the day, with choices of different bullet weights. These were distributed free, through retail outlets that sold guns and gun related material.
Later, what was originally single, or folded page loading sheets, became little pamphlets. Looking at some I have, I see a du Pont single page folded to provide four sides for loading charts. All centre fire rifles and pistols are shown.
I have a larger du Pont pamphlet (book) called new edition, probably from the 1970s and it has 40 pages, but over half is devoted to shotgun, with the rest rifle and pistol.
I have no end of Norma loading data, going back to the first edition of the Norma Gunbugs Guide, 25 pages with all instructions required for a non reloader, or even non shooter, to start from scratch and safely load his ammunition.
Also, from about the 1970s, I have a neat little Hodgdon pocket size pamphlet of 31 pages, covering reloading of all their suitable powders in shotgun, rifle and pistol.
From the same time era I have a glossy little writing paper size book by Winchester of 33 pages, showing a page of how to do it and a list of 21 reloading precautions, covering their powder of the day (wish we could get some of it now) for shotgun, rifle and pistol.
I could go on to some length here, but will just mention that in the Ellwood Epps catalogues of the mid 60s, they had full loading information sheets!
There have been a lot of new powders come on the market in very recent years, but all the old stand by powders that we use every day, had printed loads for any rifle of the day, that are still so in use today! Sorry, but there is just no new "recipe" for any rifle calibre or powder and bullet weight, that was around then and still in use, that can be found in any of your voluptuous modern loading manuals!
Don't for a minute think the handloaders of yester year were deprived of loading information.
Click to expand...
 
Im using 4198 with my 30 06 and 130 gr. Bullets. Ive used it for 150 gr. Too . It might be easier to switch bullets than powders for a good fun round. 4198 crunches through my uniflo consistent enough for mid pressure loads. but it will probably work fine with 168 in a 308 too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom