H4895 for 8x56R?

Fox

Fox

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I know the Lee data is just 8x57 data and they have almost nothing for the standard 205gr bullet.

I am not necessarily trying to make full power loads but they do need to seal properly.

Does anyone load these with H4895? I use H4895 for my 303 Brit range loads and 30-30 fun loads, I like how you can make reduced loads safely with it so I would like to use it with this old girl as well.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
 
Hodgdon's reloading site for H4895 lists the minimum load as 38gr for 200gr 8x57mm Mauser. I'd say that's safe. I have used .308 data for my 7.5x55. It's a pretty close analog.
 
Hesitant to recommend GOOGLE data but several say use 30-40 Krag data for same bullet weights and go up from there watching for pressure signs.Harold
 
The 8x56R case has more capacity than the 8x57. Not much but enough to make a difference. IMHO it works best with powders like IMR 3031 and IMR 4064. The larger the bore diameter the faster the powder needed to make it work best is a general rule of thumb but not always.

The M95 straight pull rifles as built by Steyr for Austria are tough, rugged rifles that were built for and used extensively under extremely stressful conditions. The fact that nations readily accepted them as war reparation payments says a lot about their quality. During the 1930s many of them were converted to 8x57 with a bolt head change and a magazine upgrade similar to that found on some 1888 Commission rifles that were modified to eliminate the enbloc and feed from a charger.

I reload for mine. Not as much as I used to but I use a faster powder to achieve the standard velocities that these cartridges were loaded to. They loaded a 210 grain bullet to a velocity of appx 2300fps at appx 46,000psi. Very close to any standard service charge for many other cartridges of the period.

My standard load on both Berdan primed period brass and the new Hornady Boxer primed brass is 45 grains of IMR 3031 under the .329 diameter Hornady 200 grain bullets for an average velocity of 2350 fps out of a long rifle and 2100 fps out of the carbine. It's a stout load, especially out of that carbine. It kicks like a mule but prints identical groups and has the same point of impact that period ammo shows. I tried lighter loads with slower powders but the groups on both rifles opened up more than I could live with. Both of my rifles are in excellent condition, inside and out. They shoot well if I don't flinch. Sadly these two are kind of the Rodney Dangerfields of milsurps. Most people don't have a clue how extensively they were used by the combatants of several European nations during WWI and WWII. They are well respected in Europe. I assume ammo is a bit more readily available there for these fine old girls as well. Privi makes it and it's good stuff. The biggest issue with Mannlicher style feed systems are those pesky en blocs. Especially for 100+ year old rifles. Mind you, Garands are now approaching their 80th birthdays and they use an enbloc to hold their cartridges as well. No one seems to complain until they lose them.
 
bearhunter said:
The 8x56R case has more capacity than the 8x57. Not much but enough to make a difference. IMHO it works best with powders like IMR 3031 and IMR 4064. The larger the bore diameter the faster the powder needed to make it work best is a general rule of thumb but not always.

The M95 straight pull rifles as built by Steyr for Austria are tough, rugged rifles that were built for and used extensively under extremely stressful conditions. The fact that nations readily accepted them as war reparation payments says a lot about their quality. During the 1930s many of them were converted to 8x57 with a bolt head change and a magazine upgrade similar to that found on some 1888 Commission rifles that were modified to eliminate the enbloc and feed from a charger.

I reload for mine. Not as much as I used to but I use a faster powder to achieve the standard velocities that these cartridges were loaded to. They loaded a 210 grain bullet to a velocity of appx 2300fps at appx 46,000psi. Very close to any standard service charge for many other cartridges of the period.

My standard load on both Berdan primed period brass and the new Hornady Boxer primed brass is 45 grains of IMR 3031 under the .329 diameter Hornady 200 grain bullets for an average velocity of 2350 fps out of a long rifle and 2100 fps out of the carbine. It's a stout load, especially out of that carbine. It kicks like a mule but prints identical groups and has the same point of impact that period ammo shows. I tried lighter loads with slower powders but the groups on both rifles opened up more than I could live with. Both of my rifles are in excellent condition, inside and out. They shoot well if I don't flinch. Sadly these two are kind of the Rodney Dangerfields of milsurps. Most people don't have a clue how extensively they were used by the combatants of several European nations during WWI and WWII. They are well respected in Europe. I assume ammo is a bit more readily available there for these fine old girls as well. Privi makes it and it's good stuff. The biggest issue with Mannlicher style feed systems are those pesky en blocs. Especially for 100+ year old rifles. Mind you, Garands are now approaching their 80th birthdays and they use an enbloc to hold their cartridges as well. No one seems to complain until they lose them.
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So you run faster, IMR 3031 and IMR 4064, based on the burn rates chart 4895 is right between the two, so that should work properly. I have heard that 3031 for more mild charges tend to screw up in these cases, hence why I was hoping 4895 would work, it is safe for lighter loads. I am not going to cast for this thing, not yet at least.

I really like the rifle, it gets a lot of questions at the range and makes the big men take notice when they shoot it, ha ha, I am happy that PPU loads for it now, it is cheaper to get loaded PPU rounds then empty brass and at the moment I have 100 Graf and will have 80 PPU brass, so enough for a while, I also have 10 or so clips for it, not a lot but more then many people.

For bullets I was looking at Hornady SP and PPU FMJ, both available around here.

The Lee loadings are identical to the 8x57 so I thought starting there would be safe but there are people who start at the minimum loads listed in the Lee data and have blow back due to the case not expanding to fill the chamber, nasty.
 
I'd check the bore size with a soft lead sinker or slug to see what it measures before buying a lot of bullets.The 200gr Speer .338 swaged down is supposed to be a gooder......Harold
 
mbogo3 said:
I'd check the bore size with a soft lead sinker or slug to see what it measures before buying a lot of bullets.The 200gr Speer .338 swaged down is supposed to be a gooder......Harold
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Slugging it is still on my to-do list but it shoots PPU factory stuff just fine.

I don't see the point in re-sizing down 338 bullets at the moment when .329 stuff is available at about the same cost as 338 bullets, Trade Ex has 205gr soft point and 208gr FMJ.
 
The difference is matching the bullet diameter to the bore size.Some people are happy with that'll do [goes bang and hits a plate].............and others want to the remove any variables to get the full accuracy potential from the load. Your gun.....your project.....Harold
 
mbogo3 said:
The difference is matching the bullet diameter to the bore size.Some people are happy with that'll do [goes bang and hits a plate].............and others want to the remove any variables to get the full accuracy potential from the load. Your gun.....your project.....Harold
Click to expand...

They are not a .323, they normally run .285-.330, depending on condition. I am not sure if you shoot these rifles but they are not what I would call fine shooting pieces, the sights are crude and it is not the easiest thing in the world to shoot well but my shooting is better with it then a lot of the guys I used to hunt deer with, ha ha, much better than a pie plate at 50 yards. It is all about shooting the gun and if it costs $500 to get the gear to shoot a $150 gun when $50 in bullets will do the job then I will go with $50 in bullets at this point in time.
 
When Bore size is an issue, I have found that heavy round nose bullets sized + 2 thou is the solution. They are accurate (in any caliber) and pack a satisfying thump, so you feel like you are really shooting. I use the Start load of 4895 or 10 to 15 gr of shotgun powder.

Cheap and effective.
 
mbogo3 said:
Why is it people ask for advice then when they receive help argue about the answer ? Harold
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Wow, I asked about H4895, not about bore size or cast bullets, I was asking for a specific powder and received a few answers that work and make sense to me. Sorry but bore size has no impact on the powder I use, I do know this rifle but I have no slugged it because the accuracy was better than most of the guys coming to hunt deer so I never thought it was an issue. If I was having trouble shooting 3-4in groups with the iron sights then I may have slugged it earlier but it did not matter to me. This is a 101 year old gun and I shoot it for fun not for competition.

Ganderite and bearhunter have explained their powders and bearhunter has expressed his own loads and what I should be looking for with this particular round, which is exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks everyone
 
bearhunter said:
The 8x56R case has more capacity than the 8x57. Not much but enough to make a difference. IMHO it works best with powders like IMR 3031 and IMR 4064. The larger the bore diameter the faster the powder needed to make it work best is a general rule of thumb but not always.

The M95 straight pull rifles as built by Steyr for Austria are tough, rugged rifles that were built for and used extensively under extremely stressful conditions. The fact that nations readily accepted them as war reparation payments says a lot about their quality. During the 1930s many of them were converted to 8x57 with a bolt head change and a magazine upgrade similar to that found on some 1888 Commission rifles that were modified to eliminate the enbloc and feed from a charger.

I reload for mine. Not as much as I used to but I use a faster powder to achieve the standard velocities that these cartridges were loaded to. They loaded a 210 grain bullet to a velocity of appx 2300fps at appx 46,000psi. Very close to any standard service charge for many other cartridges of the period.

My standard load on both Berdan primed period brass and the new Hornady Boxer primed brass is 45 grains of IMR 3031 under the .329 diameter Hornady 200 grain bullets for an average velocity of 2350 fps out of a long rifle and 2100 fps out of the carbine. It's a stout load, especially out of that carbine. It kicks like a mule but prints identical groups and has the same point of impact that period ammo shows. I tried lighter loads with slower powders but the groups on both rifles opened up more than I could live with. Both of my rifles are in excellent condition, inside and out. They shoot well if I don't flinch. Sadly these two are kind of the Rodney Dangerfields of milsurps. Most people don't have a clue how extensively they were used by the combatants of several European nations during WWI and WWII. They are well respected in Europe. I assume ammo is a bit more readily available there for these fine old girls as well. Privi makes it and it's good stuff. The biggest issue with Mannlicher style feed systems are those pesky en blocs. Especially for 100+ year old rifles. Mind you, Garands are now approaching their 80th birthdays and they use an enbloc to hold their cartridges as well. No one seems to complain until they lose them.
Click to expand...

X2 To summarize - use published 8X57 loads. Both the slightly larger case capacity and slightly larger bore diameter mean that the pressure in the 8X56R will fall significantly below what's published for the 8X57.

No need to begin 10% below 8X57 Start Loads to be "safe" as I've seen suggested in the past, in fact starting at 8X57 mid-range or Max Loads and working up would not be poor advice.
 
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