Had a chance to look over the T81 SR and T81 LMG

[randyhub]

First was a T81 SR last night at TSE in Calgary, the stock seemed a tad short and was odd being cut out to me, scope mount was sturdy, optics clarity wasn't bad had to pull into the eye cup to get a decent view, build quality was excellent.

Then got an invite to go shooting and there were a few SKSs and a T81 LMG.

The SKSs were shooting okay except for a scoped one that just walked around the paper loose mount, the other iron sights ones were shooting like typical SKSs not bad for plinking.

One of the shooters had a new T81 LMG it was by far the nicest shooting to me. The stock had a nice comb and the shape was very comfortable while using the bipod as you could hook in your hand towards the rear, seemed so much sturdier than the SR. Loved the cleaning kit within the stock even had a wrench for adjusting the front sight. Fit and finish is really good, hooking the magazine into the receiver took some getting used to. The longer front rear sight distance really helped when I was asked if I would like to try it as I wear glasses and being over 60 iron sights are not my favorite. My grouping was better than with an SKS at 104 yards, but one of the shooters without glasses really showed how the heavier barrel barrel and sturdy bipod of the LMG can help with accuracy, he was annoyed as he said he could do better. The LMG is just a tough well built gun, had to laugh when it failed to cycle we all thought not good, then we checked the adjustable gas port and yes it was set to off. The T81s just run flawlessly no way it will let you down.

Here is the best group of the day at 104 yards outside no wind with Canada Ammo non corrosive reload FMJ ammo and the LMG iron sights, he was sighting it in..


Curious to see other shooters groups, and those of SRs, but for the record I was never able to get a group like the other shooter, but he has way more trigger time than me for sure.

Anyways just my .02 cents on the Norinco SR and LMG.

 

[Murray 3-D]

If he didnt replicate that 4 times over, id take it as a fluke. My folder once shot a 2.5moa surplus group.... but every other group averaged 4-5moa.

 

[fritzhanzel]

The scope is fine, just doesn't have diopter adjustment. Yes, the scope is meant to be used with the rubber but it works also without it.

I also think the LMG is the best build but the weight.

What do you mean Canada Ammo? You mean Norinco red box?

 

[randyhub]

Well hope to see other shooters groups. He is ex military doubt he shoots fluke groups, so let's see some other groups.

 

[Redblack]

The ones I’ve seen shot at the range were much larger groups. Definitely not an accurate rifle at all.

 

[Murray 3-D]

Well hope to see other shooters groups. He is ex military doubt he shoots fluke groups, so let's see some other groups.

Not suggesting he shot a fluke. Suggesting theres a chance the rifle did.

 

[scianna54]

The ones I’ve seen shot at the range were much larger groups. Definitely not an accurate rifle at all.

It depends a lot on the ammo. You can't compare apples to oranges. Check out youtube and you see, also true for SKS and AK.

The reason is consistent amount of powder and manufacturer specs/bullets, for example if you have 30 grains of powder in one round, 32 in the next, 31, 29 and so on, the groups will fly all over the place.

Barnaul is good but not available anymore and I read from different posts now that the newly manufactured Norinco red box actually is quite good, which is not the same as older Norinco white and red box.

And here we have another example.

 

[Murray 3-D]

Heres why you should shoot multiple groups when it come to the semi automatic Red Rifles... 1.9 moa is really good, but my SKS as u can see sadly does not group that consistently.

 

[scianna54]

Sasha, the Russian? Try a Chinese.


Second thought on the ammo. Maybe it was Dominion Arms made in UKR. N/A as well.

 

[Murray 3-D]

I am a man of many cultures haha

 

[gristle111]

Heres why you should shoot multiple groups when it come to the semi automatic Red Rifles... 1.9 moa is really good, but my SKS as u can see sadly does not group that consistently.

2 consec 10 shot groups. Take the best 5 in each set and your have some decent groupS ya you can fluke good groups with 3-5 shot groups. Lots of barrel heat accuracy issues with this type of gun. Its a fun gun and if it will do 2.5-3 moa (maybe better if you slow fire a good reload) with spam ammo I'm good with that. watch 9hole taking 3moa guns out to 5-600 meters.

 

[bnk2]

I think part of the problem with the LMG is the bipod location. Violates one of the cardinal rules of mechanical accuracy, namely putting pressure/contact on the barrel.

 

[Curtton]

I think part of the problem with the LMG is the bipod location. Violates one of the cardinal rules of mechanical accuracy, namely putting pressure/contact on the barrel.

true but it was originally designed to put lots of bullet down range.

 

[randyhub]

The barrel is beefier on his LMG than my old T81 folder or the SR.

 

[Curtton]

The barrel is beefier on his LMG than my old T81 folder or the SR.

actually, same beefy, lmg and drugnov.

 

[randyhub]

Anyone have both to measure?

 

[Ustauk]

Someone put a 1913 rail in the flat bottom of the SR in the mod thread, it didn't seem to detract from the look and allowed for easy bipod use if needed. It would be interesting to compare bipod and off hand accuracy of the SR and LMG.

 

[Murray 3-D]

I havent benched any of my Type 81s formally yet (excluding my original import folder years ago...) But when doing basic sight ins i noticed about 4-5moa off the LMG bipod. And the stripped down LMG Tabuk showed signs of the 1.5-3moa people are talking about, like wise for the SR. I do believe all the crap clamped to the LMG barrel detracts from its accuracy. I havent had the time to test them all thoroughly.

 

[gristle111]

I have do have some limited testing. I feel the bipod subtracts from accuracy in the lmg. Also how you bench it off a bag effects it as well. Firm grip on hand guard vs off hand supporting buttstock. Firm grip better accuracy. Feel is controls that recoil impulse better. Not sure of the science behind this. SR is more accurate than LMG all things being equal with the few diff types of ammo i tried. Just a sample or my two guns!!

I feel the lower and upper hand guard tightness is a area to look at regarding barrel heat and poi shift. From some research from my garand build it is a factor. My SR lower hand guard has a very tight fit... that prob effect accuracy as the barrel heats. If you have a tight upper hand guard/gas cover i imagine it will have same effect. Just some food for thought...

 

[fritzhanzel]

I have do have some limited testing. I feel the bipod subtracts from accuracy in the lmg. Also how you bench it off a bag effects it as well. Firm grip on hand guard vs off hand supporting buttstock. Firm grip better accuracy. Feel is controls that recoil impulse better. Not sure of the science behind this. SR is more accurate than LMG all things being equal with the few diff types of ammo i tried. Just a sample or my two guns!!

I feel the lower and upper hand guard tightness is a area to look at regarding barrel heat and poi shift. From some research from my garand build it is a factor. My SR lower hand guard has a very tight fit... that prob effect accuracy as the barrel heats. If you have a tight upper hand guard/gas cover i imagine it will have same effect. Just some food for thought...

Those are some excellent points.