Handgun Holster, what are they used for? (in canada)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thank you Mr. maetsack

That example makes perfect sense. Drawing the gun is not a single event but part of a continuum. When we learn "sets" of behavior not only are we safer but also more effective. I was taught to draw and punch out having first established a solid grip at or near my belly. I see people flailing away trying to get that weak hand in place while the gun is 30 inches away. Also once that gun is out, I now instinctively know how to orient it when I'm moving right, left or in reverse. You can argue that this has nothing to do with holster discipline but if you accept the notion of sets of behaviors it does.

Another aspect that can be covered in a compact and sensible session is the choice of equipment best of all before new people go to a lot of expense. What I some times see in non competition settings are cheap, poorly fitted, garbage holsters that can be unsafe as they collapse, have dangling straps in the wrong place and so on. Focus is another aspect that needs to be stressed with new people. I also see people having a great time BS'ing and laughing while they haphazardly try to jam a gun into their crap holster along with parts of their shirt. Some of these people can't be helped but a lot can.

Aside from technique, what training should do (however brief the "course") is instill an attitude. I watch highly-skilled, very safe shooters all the time. They had to start somewhere. Competition regardless of when you start is a big builder of skills and safety practices because all of our fellows teach even when their lips don't move. I watch really good carbine and shotgun shooters moving from station to station with the gun in a particular position and say to myself "hey that's makes sense" and adopt the practice because it works and is safe.

Drawing and holstering seems simple in words but when it's melded into a set of safe and effective techniques, it's part of the game in a big way.
 
Remember, "best practices" tend to go for a sh*t as soon as Mr Murphy, who runs the two way range, decides the cease fire is over.

So that means they have no value? We shouldn't care about them?
I agree, they definitely deteriorate, but many don't.

I use a Serpa with my M&P9. It has a retention button that indexes my finger the right place on the slide to safely draw it. I have reinforced that best practice to properly index my finger off the trigger a thousand times so much so that when I pick up my power drill, my finger indexes rather than goes straight to the drill trigger. I am unconsciously competent in this respect. This helps ensure all my leads goes where I want it to go.

Am I perfect? Absolutely not.
Have I stacked the deck in my favour? Absolutely.
 
So an outfit that teaches you how to walk and how to dress, (the CF) doesn't see the need for a holster course? Interesting.

You really ought to dump that Serpa - then you'll be able to take the big boy courses
 
There were no MLP's regarding holsters and their use on the urban ops course either. At least during my stay at the infantry school during '08-09. The instructors just walked around giving people their own quiffs during the range portion. Even the JTF2 operator that was one of them wasn't as absolute as you are. But what do they know?

So your argument boils down to it wasn't taught when I was there so it must not matter? Really? And that's cool with you?
Frankly, you should be pissed that your training was so incomplete, not indignant that it didn't matter.

Perhaps they simply didn't give a sh!t - if you ended up shooting yourself, who cares, right???
 
as we cant carry and use pistol anywhere except in a range, what are the use for holster?
do some range allow the use of holster?

il_570xN.394131597_lzt3.jpg

First off, I'm not going to wade through 30 pages of pissing into the wind to answer this.

You can carry an antique in Canada in a holster. I wouldn't recommend it unless you owned a lot of private land. Wilderness Protection Carry is another reason to carry a handgun in a holster. These aforementioned reasons I don't know much about, but my club has a Defensive Pistol club and a Cowboy Action club so let's just say I have more than a few holsters and I use them regularly.
 
Sorry dude, not trolling, it's true - none of the good courses will allow a Serpa unless you're one of the unfortunate souls in the RCMP that got stuck with one.

As I mentioned earlier, you can tell a metric buttload about someone by their gear.
 
I see people flailing away trying to get that weak hand in place while the gun is 30 inches away. Also once that gun is out, I now instinctively know how to orient it when I'm moving right, left or in reverse. You can argue that this has nothing to do with holster discipline but if you accept the notion of sets of behaviors it does,....

Very much agree - almost every new shooter that joins our ODPL group comes with holster that they bought and have tried and have already learned a few bad habits. I was no different when I started. We take the time to give them the best practices, find the techniques the work best for them and ensure a safe shooting line. We train shooters to draw and shoot on the move against moving targets and in countless different scenarios. They learn the basics and then develop smooth, safe and efficient skills and are supported by multiple veterans each time they practice with their holster.

AND WE DO THIS FOR FREE - we volunteer our time to make our club a better club.

As for the guys who are "learning" by watching movies and the guy next to them, they are simply not getting the complete package. C'est la vie.
 
Sorry dude, not trolling, it's true - none of the good courses will allow a Serpa unless you're one of the unfortunate souls in the RCMP that got stuck with one.

You are trolling - you deliberately derailed the thread and took a shot at me. The holster mentioned was an example of how it developed a muscle memory and a best practice and you decided to mock me rather than talk to me like an adult.

You are a troll. Nothing will change that
 
So your argument boils down to it wasn't taught when I was there so it must not matter? Really? And that's cool with you?
Frankly, you should be pissed that your training was so incomplete, not indignant that it didn't matter.

Perhaps they simply didn't give a sh!t - if you ended up shooting yourself, who cares, right???

Yes. Fully grown men that use guns for a living will shoot themselves because they didn't get your weekend course about proper holster use. :jerkit:

Not really. What I'm saying is that it wasn't absolute. It is a personal preference that you figure out for yourself and the guys there help you out with their own experience. Even doctrine isn't absolute. Each one had their own way of doing everything and you took some and left some..
 
Yes. Fully grown men that use guns for a living will shoot themselves because they didn't get your weekend course about proper holster use. :jerkit:

Not really. What I'm saying is that it wasn't absolute. It is a personal preference that you figure out for yourself and the guys there help you out with their own experience. Even doctrine isn't absolute. Each one had their own way of doing everything and you took some and left some..

I don't believe I said that. I said that your argument is "it wasn't taught so it doesn't matter". That's what you said.

And drop the assumptions - we don't teach a weekend holster course. Our club allows you to join and receive some basic personal instruction and then you spend one night a week adding to that skill base. We issue holster qualifications after about three to four months and only after 3 ROs agree that the candidate has demonstrated proficiency. Along the way, you learn to shoot in dozens of scenarios and participate in internal matches to learn more and test your skills. Time to abandon your assumptions - they are wrong.
 
You are trolling - you deliberately derailed the thread and took a shot at me. The holster mentioned was an example of how it developed a muscle memory and a best practice and you decided to mock me rather than talk to me like an adult.

You are a troll. Nothing will change that

You opened the door, I simply walked through it - frankly I think we're functioning at entirely different ends of the spectrum, and also frankly, you don't have the skills required to tie TDC's shoelaces - I'm not a fan of his method of relating to people, but by all reliable accounts (other trained shooters) the guys a trained shooter - unlike yourself. Try spending a week or two at a decent school, then come back and tell people what is or isn't necessary. In order to do that, you will need to acquire some equipment that anyone with any responsibility for providing real training will accept - that is something you do not currently own. Not trolling, fact.
 
Drop the assumptions..eh? You're assuming people will shoot themselves if they don't complete your weekday-night courses. Sorry for the weekend slur.

I'm not arguing the virtues of your training, I'm sure you guys have some useful quiffs. But that is what they are, quiffs. Nothing you can teach is absolute except the cardinal safety rules (aka The Scripture). The rest are all SOP (or trends) and SOP's are different in every unit you'll come across.

The point I'm trying to make is this : drop your elitist attitude and stop thinking you're better than everyone because you took a class. It's fine that you took one. It doesn't mean you know everything and it doesn't mean you need one either. And please don't trash on people who carry and use a multitude of weapon platforms for a living.
 
I don't believe I said that. I said that your argument is "it wasn't taught so it doesn't matter". That's what you said.

And drop the assumptions - we don't teach a weekend holster course. Our club allows you to join and receive some basic personal instruction and then you spend one night a week adding to that skill base. We issue holster qualifications after about three to four months and only after 3 ROs agree that the candidate has demonstrated proficiency. Along the way, you learn to shoot in dozens of scenarios and participate in internal matches to learn more and test your skills. Time to abandon your assumptions - they are wrong.

Wow, 3-4 months before being allowed to use a holster + buy in by 3 RO's seems very onerous. Maybe we need a new type of federal holster licensing regime to standardize this doctrine across the land. For everyone's own good of course .... what club is this anyway?
 
Our club allows you to join and receive some basic personal instruction and then you spend one night a week adding to that skill base. We issue holster qualifications after about three to four months and only after 3 ROs agree that the candidate has demonstrated proficiency. Along the way, you learn to shoot in dozens of scenarios and participate in internal matches to learn more and test your skills. Time to abandon your assumptions - they are wrong.

My first gunclub tried to make me take one of these courses. Couple hundred bucks and a few hundred rounds to teach me how to use a holster. Are you saying you require someone to spend 12 - 16 nights training with a holster and getting the thumbs up from *3* RSOs before they can use a holster? Don't you think that's a bit of over kill? Putting a gun in a holster sounds more dangerous than shooting one.
 
drop your elitist attitude and stop thinking you're better than everyone because you took a class,...

So when I originally waded into this sh!t-show and said:

So I gotta say I find this thread a little ridiculous

We teach holster certification at our club and anyone who thinks it is about wearing a plastic holder on your waist and it ends there is an idiot.

If you are using a holster, chances are you are using it as part of a group of holster qualified shooters. This means you need to understand an advanced set of range commands, proper draw, load and unload techniques, movement protocols, etc. Wearing and using the holster is about 10% of what you need to demonstrate to proved competent holster usage and saying that ACTS and PROVE covers it just shows how completely ignorant you are on the subject. Buying a holster doesn't qualify you to use it safely and effectively anymore than buying a precision rifle makes you a sniper.

There is nothing exclusive or elite about this and there is nothing simple about wearing and using a holster.

you interpreted that as I was being elitist - the EXACT OPPOSITE of the words I used??? Are you phukking serious? I'm acting better than everyone cause I want people to be safe and be aware that there are techniques you can employ to reduce risk?

Holy sh!t - I never realized I was such a phukking @sshole for trying to help. You're right - ignorance is the better route.
I'll stop now.
 
Wow, 3-4 months before being allowed to use a holster + buy in by 3 RO's seems very onerous. Maybe we need a new type of federal holster licensing regime to standardize this doctrine across the land. For everyone's own good of course .... what club is this anyway?

Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote. What do you think this means "Along the way, you learn to shoot in dozens of scenarios and participate in internal matches to learn more and test your skills."

Strapping on a holster does not grant you your holster qualification. I wouldn't want to be a member of a club where it does.
 
You are not worth the time.
Good luck - one last tip, you might want to pack a first aid kit in your range bag. :)

You're right I'm not.

And I do pack a first aid kit. I just call it preparedness. In case somebody beside me is getting trained to use a holster and shoots his instructor/sarcasm off.

I totally get what you are trying to say dude... But you really gotta step back from defending what seems to be like a ridiculous waste of time for use of a holster.

As for your scenario. I'm not sure about you. But I carry on the street, and I have yet to "draw my gun before getting behind cover as I'm going into a crouch". I learned long ago. That if the gun ain't coming out as I'm starting to move, might as well throw in the towel.

Everything has merits. A holster course as you define it seems like a "feel happy" way of dealing with people too lazy to put in time on their own.

Anyways. Back to the original post/topic. Other then rangee/competition use it's hard to justify any holster use (I have 6 different rigs I use every time I'm on the range (not all at once. Although maybe...) from thigh rigs, to conceal carry, to open carry.

I have yet to be approached. By any RO to teach me how to use any of them. Does that detract from safety? No. Just like any skill you train on your own. And qualify.

As for the rest of yas. Arguing his opinion is pointless he sees merit and believes it should be upheld with newer(?) shooters. He's not entirely wrong. But what he is talking about is a bit much.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom