Handgun Holster, what are they used for? (in canada)

[mini15]

My holster...

Been practicing at the range with this weekly.

Usually I would leave this out and watch the ####storm unfold but like some posters stated, they actually have trust in the cognitive abilities of most shooters. Obviously recognizing the limitations of this design and the no safety nature of the pistol I carry with an empty chamber and do "Israeli Draws".

 

[TPK]

....they actually have trust in the cognitive abilities of most shooters....

I recognize that is not your quote mini15, I just grabbed it out of your post as it is really the issue at hand. How does a club deal with the few shooters that don't display the cognitive abilities of most shooters?? I really hate the "If it saves just one life" Liberal thinking and dumbing down of our society to lowest common denominator but I say, pick the right fight. When it comes to firearms and gun clubs staying open, any safety concern that is not addressed will be their downfall, especially if the use of holsters by untrained individuals has been raised as a safety concern and is recorded in your meeting minutes. Once this happens and it's recorded in your minutes .. the club (in my mind) has no choice but to act in some way to mitigate potential problems. I think our club is on the right path. A free holster course to cover the basics, a stamp on your membership card indicating you're good to go and then that's it, no more restrictions, wear your holster where ever you want on the property and draw and shoot from it at stations/ranges that allow it.

 

[TDC]

Does any form of holster training/certification/qualification/competency/validation prevent anyone from having a negligent discharge?

Tdc

 

[TPK]

Does any form of holster training/certification/qualification/competency/validation prevent anyone from having a negligent discharge?

Tdc

No, of course not. In fact if you remove the word holster from your comment the answer is still no. Accidents can and will happen and all clubs can do is due diligence. Ignoring a potential problem on a gun range is NOT due diligence.

 

[Avenida]

Mini15, for you I hand picked this internet meme:

Gotta be smarter than this if you gonna go bullying on the internet, don't you think?

I stand up for what I believe is right specially when I did not do/say anything wrong. And I will stir some sh!t if needed.

Or you can choose to be an a$shat thinking you are very smart hiding behind your keyboard and nickname...

Thanks but you should not bothered posting a photo of you new holster.
Just bring it next time.

I wonder what Avendia would think of my holster...


Been practicing at the range with this weekly.

Usually I would leave this out and watch the ####storm unfold but like some posters stated, they actually have trust in the cognitive abilities of most shooters. Obviously recognizing the limitations of this design and the no safety nature of the pistol I carry with an empty chamber and do "Israeli Draws".

I think one poster here has really outed himself as an elitist, not only an H&K salesmen but "that guy" at the club. You know, the guy that comes around and everybody stops talking, takes the slacks out of their shoulders and turns their muzzle to perfect 90 degree angle as he walks by. Soon as he leaves, everybody goes back to normal bbq fun times and also goes home injury free.

 

[hercster]

No, of course not. In fact if you remove the word holster from your comment the answer is still no. Accidents can and will happen and all clubs can do is due diligence. Ignoring a potential problem on a gun range is NOT due diligence.

Being able to demonstrate "due diligence" is the key to survival for the organization. Even if the added safety is an illusion, it's an important illusion.
We have our issues with a few sources of major aggravation in Canada. We should be happy that we don't have the "lawsuit happy" norms of the USA.

The other day, a friend and I went to a new indoor range in Corpus Christi, Tx. Before we could shoot at this "pay as you go" operation we had to complete a NINE (9) page document that included a "true or false" test demonstrating that we understood all the preceding rules. I swear that this abomination of lawyer- happy nonsense took all of 15 minutes to complete. We were reassured that our application would be kept on file and wouldn't have to be repeated. There were about seven closed circuit TV monitors on the wall showing each bay plus the one beside it. One of the "rules" was no carry guns on the range. For a Texan, giving up his carry gun is close to castration but this is the length the range had to go to in order to in order to set up business.

As Mr. TPK said, choose your battles wisely and avoid the ones that will bankrupt you.

 

[NavyCuda]

No, of course not. In fact if you remove the word holster from your comment the answer is still no. Accidents can and will happen and all clubs can do is due diligence. Ignoring a potential problem on a gun range is NOT due diligence.

Ignoring a potential problem with a gun owner is not due dilligance. No civilians may possess or acquire firearms, air guns or paintball markers.

 

[TPK]

Ignoring a potential problem with a gun owner is not due dilligance. No civilians may possess or acquire firearms, air guns or paintball markers.

I agree that the issue is with individuals when they act in an unsafe manor .. so how does a club deal with them without some form of relevant rule forbidding or providing guidelines around the unsafe action??

You are also correct, "It is illegal to own a firearm in Canada." That is a true statement. How ever, if you pay the dues and keep your license up to date you won't be charged. If you think of firearms ownership in this light, it's easy to see why it's so important not to let your PAL/RPAL/POL expire. If you do, the calendar date rolls by and magically you are a criminal.

Is this right? NO of course not but it's the way we have to play to be in the game. Doesn't mean we can't push for more common sense rules, licenses and ATT's that don't expire etc. Fight the good fight but know what is a good fight and what is not. Anything that is seen to be a safety issue at a gun range and has been raised as such at a meeting needs to be looked at and possibly action taken, or not, but ignoring the potential problem is not something I personally would recommend. You're a grown up, make your decisions as such but don't expect everyone to be on board with your ideas of right and wrong and be big enough to see that yours is not the only view that matters. Keeping our existing gun ranges open is a big enough battle with the "outside" folks trying to shut us down at every opportunity, we can't appear to be lax about safety issues internally.

 

[NavyCuda]

I agree that the issue is with individuals when they act in an unsafe manor .. so how does a club deal with them without some form of relevant rule forbidding or providing guidelines around the unsafe action??

You are also correct, "It is illegal to own a firearm in Canada." That is a true statement. How ever, if you pay the dues and keep your license up to date you won't be charged. If you think of firearms ownership in this light, it's easy to see why it's so important not to let your PAL/RPAL/POL expire. If you do, the calendar date rolls by and magically you are a criminal.

Is this right? NO of course not but it's the way we have to play to be in the game. Doesn't mean we can't push for more common sense rules, licenses and ATT's that don't expire etc. Fight the good fight but know what is a good fight and what is not. Anything that is seen to be a safety issue at a gun range and has been raised as such at a meeting needs to be looked at and possibly action taken, or not, but ignoring the potential problem is not something I personally would recommend. You're a grown up, make your decisions as such but don't expect everyone to be on board with your ideas of right and wrong and be big enough to see that yours is not the only view that matters. Keeping our existing gun ranges open is a big enough battle with the "outside" folks trying to shut us down at every opportunity, we can't appear to be lax about safety issues internally.

Well I don't know what to say, because the glass is so clear even UV will pass through it.

More rules will not solve the problem, as I've mentioned that's how we got the firearms act.

How you deal with it, is swiftly ejecting people who demonstrate they are not handling firearms safely. If you absolutely must have a rule to tell you how to live, this is the only rule you need: "Handle a firearm unsafely and you will be forcefully ejected."

 

[Can-down]

I wonder what Avendia would think of my holster...

Been practicing at the range with this weekly.

Usually I would leave this out and watch the ####storm unfold but like some posters stated, they actually have trust in the cognitive abilities of most shooters. Obviously recognizing the limitations of this design and the no safety nature of the pistol I carry with an empty chamber and do "Israeli Draws".

I think one poster here has really outed himself as an elitist, not only an H&K salesmen but "that guy" at the club. You know, the guy that comes around and everybody stops talking, takes the slacks out of their shoulders and turns their muzzle to perfect 90 degree angle as he walks by. Soon as he leaves, everybody goes back to normal bbq fun times and also goes home injury free.

Just a small bit of kydex and you are good to go.....

 

[NavyCuda]

Just a small bit of kydex and you are good to go.....

How does that work?

 

[Can-down]

It protects the trigger from getting accidently snagged or pulled so to speak.
You loop the cord around a belt loop and after you draw it from your mexican holster the chord tears the kydex off the guard.
Not the best for re holstering obviously....

 

[NavyCuda]

It protects the trigger from getting accidently snagged or pulled so to speak.
You loop the cord around a belt loop and after you draw it from your mexican holster the chord tears the kydex off the guard.
Not the best for re holstering obviously....

Mexico must be a rich country with all these inventions. Mexican holster, mexican fit-all, and mexican overdrive to name a few!

 

[TDC]

Well I don't know what to say, because the glass is so clear even UV will pass through it.

More rules will not solve the problem, as I've mentioned that's how we got the firearms act.

How you deal with it, is swiftly ejecting people who demonstrate they are not handling firearms safely. If you absolutely must have a rule to tell you how to live, this is the only rule you need: "Handle a firearm unsafely and you will be forcefully ejected."

Big boy rules. I fully agree.

Tdc

 

[TDC]

I wonder what Avendia would think of my holster...

Been practicing at the range with this weekly.

Usually I would leave this out and watch the ####storm unfold but like some posters stated, they actually have trust in the cognitive abilities of most shooters. Obviously recognizing the limitations of this design and the no safety nature of the pistol I carry with an empty chamber and do "Israeli Draws".

I think one poster here has really outed himself as an elitist, not only an H&K salesmen but "that guy" at the club. You know, the guy that comes around and everybody stops talking, takes the slacks out of their shoulders and turns their muzzle to perfect 90 degree angle as he walks by. Soon as he leaves, everybody goes back to normal bbq fun times and also goes home injury free.

Carrying and/or drawing "Israeli" is stupid as is the holster clip on your pic.

Tdc

 

[Can-down]

Mexico must be a rich country with all these inventions. Mexican holster, mexican fit-all, and mexican overdrive to name a few!

It's actually richer then I thought.

 

[TPK]

.. How you deal with it, is swiftly ejecting people who demonstrate they are not handling firearms safely. "

That doesn't solve the problem, it just becomes someone else's problem. This does not grow club membership nor provide a fun and safe place to shoot. Teaching people the right/safe way is the way to go and "most" people will not push back in these cases .. but for the few that do .. what recourse does the club have? Your solution could very easily run the club into big problems, kicking someone out for unsafe behaviour on the surface sounds like grounds but with no prior discussion about what is safe behaviour, no rules or guidelines outlining the way the club wants to see things done, no instruction or opportunity to be taught the right way, no chance of rebuttal or opportunity to make the needed change required to stay on as a member. The club could be in for a law suite for dealing with this individual in that manor. I know I would feel "ambushed" and be quite angry if I was subjected to as strike one you're out clause if it wasn't very clear what was allowed and what was not.

Again, I'm not one for a lot of rules and regulations, we have quite enough but in this case, if it's "deemed" or "seen" to be a safety concern at a gun range, no action is not the correct response.

I've made my point and am done. It would be interesting to start a range and run it with your one and only golden rule and see how long it stays in business, who would insure it, and how the membership grows.

 

[NavyCuda]

That doesn't solve the problem, it just becomes someone else's problem. This does not grow club membership nor provide a fun and safe place to shoot. Teaching people the right/safe way is the way to go and "most" people will not push back in these cases .. but for the few that do .. what recourse does the club have? Your solution could very easily run the club into big problems, kicking someone out for unsafe behaviour on the surface sounds like grounds but with no prior discussion about what is safe behaviour, no rules or guidelines outlining the way the club wants to see things done, no instruction or opportunity to be taught the right way, no chance of rebuttal or opportunity to make the needed change required to stay on as a member. The club could be in for a law suite for dealing with this individual in that manor. I know I would feel "ambushed" and be quite angry if I was subjected to as strike one you're out clause if it wasn't very clear what was allowed and what was not.

Again, I'm not one for a lot of rules and regulations, we have quite enough but in this case, if it's "deemed" or "seen" to be a safety concern at a gun range, no action is not the correct response.

I've made my point and am done. It would be interesting to start a range and run it with your one and only golden rule and see how long it stays in business, who would insure it, and how the membership grows.

Lets break down a situation at my imaginary range with only one rule.

A new member demonstrates some unsafe practices, a RO approaches the member explaining his unsafe actions. If that new member refuses to correct unsafe behavior then eject. If that member is willing to take some safety pointers, or even invest into a course then all the better. If the member becomes belligerent or represents a threat to other members safety then get the authorities involved.

I mean really, how hard is this? One simple rule can work at a range, considering there is only ten rules for life.

 

[enefgee]

Lets break down a situation at my imaginary range with only one rule.

A new member demonstrates some unsafe practices, a RO approaches the member explaining his unsafe actions. If that new member refuses to correct unsafe behavior then eject. If that member is willing to take some safety pointers, or even invest into a course then all the better. If the member becomes belligerent or represents a threat to other members safety then get the authorities involved.

I mean really, how hard is this? One simple rule can work at a range, considering there is only ten rules for life.

Where do I join.

 

[mini15]

Carrying and/or drawing "Israeli" is stupid as is the holster clip on your pic.

Tdc

So what, I should carry it loaded? Get X piece of $200 leather super ultra tuck crossdraw FBI cant kydex drop rig tactical edition ? I have a bladetech I use for ODPL, I find this fun.

I'm a fan of training for thing that have their roots in reality.

If you're not LEO/Mill you're not going to carry a gun ever, especially not OWB in a proper holster. If you're a bad guy your never going to use a holster because you can't justify having a holster.

If you ever need to carry a gun in this country it's going to be because something so messed up came up that your willing to violate the law and stick a gun in your pants for a brief period of time.