Handgun Possession IN ONTARIO

TightGroup said:
Since when does the club issue an ATT, your member of club you get an ATT. Probation or not. This business of passing a CSSA exam is outside the regulations stipulated.

Like it was mentioned strict adherance to safety rules yes, but if on probation you are still a member and thats all you need .


Everyone is taking us for a ride :( This is shameful behavior on the part of the range owners...

Everyone believes that they can do want they want with Gun owners. Its like we are scum of the earth and have no legal rights.

We keep the ranges alive not the other way around

Rant off..

Molon Labe
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You know, I kinda like the probation period. First of all, the member gets to know the club a little better. Second, the members get to know the probee as well. We did have people who were rejected by the club before because of different reasons, but mailnly the attitude of "I dont give a sh!t of what the club rules are, I'll do whatever I please". As a member of the club, I dont want this kind of people coming to the club, never mind bringing their own guns.
Probation could be a positive or a negative experience. You come, you shoot club guns, you get to try out other members guns, you learn a little, you become more proficient and safety concious.
A couple of months of so called probation is a small price to pay for the safety and well being of the probee and the other members of the club.
 
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A transition period to such a sport can be a welcomed method.

Let me get something straight. People with attitudes do NOT belong at a shooting range.

My safety course for the clubs I belong to cover with a very firm hand the rules and regulations for the sake of safety.

If you screw up your out, no probation period..

A club can handle its own population the way it sees fit, but the ATT thats outside of the Ranges jurisdiction, its a Provincial matter.

Thats my point..
 
I love BC....(except for the constant rain) you guys have it real rough out east!

AS FOR CLUB SAFETY:

Man...I am all for a 'test/course' to be able to shoot. Try PoCo in BC on a Sat. afternoon ...It full of young guys with their buds...more non-licenced than licenced! Super busy and lots of people that need to understand the Club rules,general shooting rules, and respect for fellow shooters, and shooting range Etiquette. Lucky for us the Range waden and other other RO
Volunteers run a very tight ship ...no messing around. That being said I think there should be a course one must take to shoot and be certified to have guests under their direct supervision.

Safety first!!!
 
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TightGroup said:
A transition period to such a sport can be a welcomed method.

Let me get something straight. People with attitudes do NOT belong at a shooting range.

My safety course for the clubs I belong to cover with a very firm hand the rules and regulations for the sake of safety.

If you screw up your out, no probation period..

A club can handle its own population the way it sees fit, but the ATT thats outside of the Ranges jurisdiction, its a Provincial matter.

Thats my point..
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Oh dont get me wrong, I completely agree that an ATT is not in the club's Jurisdiction. But while the ontario rules are such that the club needs to apply on behalf of it's members, I'll support the fact that the club will postpone applying for a person which may for one reason or another be denied membership.
ATT's should apply evenly in all provinces. After all, if the CFC issued a PAL, you can buy a gun and ammunition which is a greater responsibility then transporting it to a range..
 
This is a good debate.

A shooting range needs to have a safety course, thats in the regulation and I am for this. SAfety needs to be respected and without any exception zero tolerance!

A new member will go through the course , do a firing drill to see if the concepts are understood.

Most ranges have a range officer present at all times. The range rules are observed.

How well the shooter does in the box is in between the shooter and his ego.

If a range has a problem with its members then it needs to clean up shop, like I said zero tolerance.

The range rules are quite simple to follow. Do not need a month's trial on how to handle myself responsably.

Lastly the club does not apply for you to get an ATT thats your responsability.

I need to show proof of why I need the ATT.

Now imagine this scenario:)

I am a new member at this probee range. I am also an IPSC competitor, now I need an invite from my club to attend a match and get a temporary ATT for the shoot.

However the next day I am a probee with no ATT..

I bring alot of guests to this sport and have no problem with safety. Most members will always keep a watchful eye out, and if something looks a bit strange action will be taken.
 
may work for your club. problem is at our club it's 24x7, with all members having an access card. Most of us prefer to do the shooting in small groups or alone, hence there is not always a designated RSO. It may be just me and another guy or two.
Now imagine a guy who just joined coming into the ranfe with me shooting there late at night. I declare a ceasefire, the guy says OK. I go to check/change targets, the guy is playing with his gun. I quietly ask him to step beyound the safe line and put his gun down, he looks at me and says, hmmm bud, but it ain't loaded...
Now this really happened. Not to me, but to one of our other members. That is the reason we support a probation period etc.
As far as the ATT goes, again, I understand your point. All I'm saying is that while a club is unsure if the probee will become a member or not, we should'nt be applying for an ATT for the guy. If the whole system in Ontario would change to like it is out west, then fine, an ATT is between the CFO and the person. Here for some stupid reason it's different. The system puts alot of the responsibility on the club exec that signs the ATT request. Hence I was saying that as a club exec I wouldn't want to request an ATT for a guy I'm not 2000% sure about.
 
TightGroup said:
Everyone is taking us for a ride :( This is shameful behavior on the part of the range owners...
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My club (which happens to be the most expensive gun club in Canada) also charges $15 per each of the six mandatory probation shoots for the "wear and tear" of the guns used.
 
capp325 said:
My club also charges $15 per each of the six mandatory probation shoots for the "wear and tear" of the guns used. And that's in addition to being the most expesive gun club in Canada.
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THAT is a ripoff.
Which club is that? (If you don't mind saying..)
 
Well let me just say that it's in the GTA...and it charges the highest annual fee of any Canadian club that I'm aware of. Shouldn't be hard to figure out.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I like my club. The facilities are great and there's enough stalls to never have to wait for your turn to shoot. However, charging people $15 for the "wear tear" caused by what - a few dozen rounds? - seems a little over the top to me.
 
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TightGroup said:
How well the shooter does in the box is in between the shooter and his ego
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Then how to you explain all the holes in the baffles??

I know of a few people who, even though they know the safety rules, need to learn better control and recovery before then move to the larger calibers..

how "good" you shoot, often is a good sign of being ready to handle larger calibers. (It's not always th case, but but generally from what i've seen)

you have to think of this from the clubs point of view a well.. damage to the range costs all the members.
 
When I bought my first handgun 2 months ago, the store in Winnipeg called(while I stood there) to Maramichi NB to get the transfer of ownership from the vender to me. The only question that they asked was what club I belonged to and since I did not at the time, they put me down as a "collector". I arranged when I would be back to pick up the gun, (which was 2 to 3 days) and when I arrived, they phoned the Provincial Chief Firearms Officer and my ATT from the store to my home was faxed over in 4 minutes. I live 30 minutes away from the store so the sales guys asked for a 24 hr. ATT and it was granted.
By the way, a permanent (5 yr) ATT in Manitoba is "from legal place of storage to any registered gun club in the province or to the U.S. border, 24 hrs. a day for any registered restricted firearm you own or plan to own".
However, like the transportation of alcohol, it must be the most "direct" route.
 
Listening to this, I can see no reason to ever want to live in Ontario again. While I agree with safety courses for novices, there should be a provincial standard, not multiple club standards. Why your shooters put up with the bs of a permit coming through the club secretary is beyond me. Why did you vote for people that make these stupid laws? As for having to pay for each time you shoot on "probation", thats theft pure and simple. Go with a friend and shoot his guns. I was under the impression that clubs can't own firearms, so obviously someone is raking it in.
 
Garand said:
Listening to this, I can see no reason to ever want to live in Ontario again. While I agree with safety courses for novices, there should be a provincial standard, not multiple club standards. Why your shooters put up with the bs of a permit coming through the club secretary is beyond me. Why did you vote for people that make these stupid laws? As for having to pay for each time you shoot on "probation", thats theft pure and simple. Go with a friend and shoot his guns. I was under the impression that clubs can't own firearms, so obviously someone is raking it in.
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I believe it's an issue with one particular club. At out club the club guns are free for any member or probee to use. No charge whatsoever.
As far as the standard goes, it should not be provincial, but federal. I agree that clubs should not be handling ATT's.
 
Magichip,

The incident you described about the guy playing with his gun while on a ceasefire, this member should of been thrown out Period..

I do not want to see the clubs starting to dictate rules and regulations. This needs to be done at a provincial level.

And I certainly agree with you that there are always a few yahoos and these need to be dealt with immediately, they are tarnishing our reputation.

Anyone who has a PAL needs to handle ALL firearms safely without any exception.

I see too many newbies armed with knowledge aquired from the golden screen and have this notion of coolness wrapped around their egos. And these attitudes will cause us much more grief that we can anticipate, however the corrective measures need to be applied immediatly not through a probation period which will tend to mask the problem.

If you have your PAL, your club safety course, then you should be set to participate. If you screw up,then your gone Thats it. No probation.

It seems to me the clubs are ,milking their clientele through a notion of probation.

If you need six weeks to know where to point your gun, then you should not be handling one, period, no amount of probation will change that.

Handling a gun when a ceasefire is called, no need to have a probation to understand that one, sorry bud your out.

Lets start being responsible and stop having other people take us for ride because its for our best interest, heard that one before, right ...

its the BS that gets me, I have no sympathy for major malfucntions, but cannot tolerate being taken either.

My final 2 cents
 
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