Hang fires and miss fires the first time out

fightinghamster

fightinghamster

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I finally got out to shoot my uberti 1851 navy revolver replicas the other day after months of scrounging for components and waiting for the rain to stop so we could go across to shoot, I don’t know the history of these revolvers as I bought them secondhand on the EE during the panic, I could only get two rounds off in a row without a misfire or failure to set off the caps, I will admit to being completely out of my element as these are my first and so far only black powder guns, a few things to note that might be against me,

1: I’m using paper cartridges as I’m a 2hr drive from the range and loading paper cartridges at home seemed like a good way to get the most out of my trip

2: I’m using pyrodex not real black powder as I couldn’t find anything else

3: I’m assuming the revolvers have the factory nipples on them and I’m not positive what caps there ment for, I’m using cci#11 caps

Sometimes the caps wouldn’t go off and sometimes they would go off and not ignite the powder(very worrisome for a brand new shooter lol) I tried stabbing a hole in the back of the cartridge and there was no change to the ignition I’m using 18 grains of powder and I’m using bees wax and lambs tallow for lube

There’s a few things I’m going to try to make the revolvers reliable like get some felt wads and load at the range instead of paper cartridges, if I can find some I’ll get some #11 magnum cap’s hopefully for better ignition(in addition to the misfires I also got hangfires) get some slick shot nipples to replace the factory ones, get a new hammer spring? I don’t know how old or how used these revolvers are but they don’t feel bran new

Anything I haven’t already said or anything people want to add is much appreciated like I said I’m new to black powder shooting and really want to get these revolvers running as good as they feel in the hand
 
You might get better ignition with real FFFG blackpowder. You primers might be to small and not seating properly on the nipples. Be sure to seal your cylinders with grease or crisco to avoid multiple discharges.
 
JP said:
You might get better ignition with real FFFG blackpowder. You primers might be too small and not seating properly on the nipples. Be sure to seal your cylinders with grease or crisco to avoid multiple discharges.
Click to expand...

I seal them with bees wax and lambs tallow mix but I’m pretty sure the caps are not all the way on the nipples would #10 nipples fit better if this is the case ? The #11s don’t feels loose
 
Check that the passage through the nipples is clear. As mentioned, make sure the caps are seated all the way on the nipples.
The paper cartridges used originally used very thin nitrated paper (or animal membrane). Not paper cartridges as used in a musket.
No harm in using over powder wads, but that doesn't affect ignition. Might help with fouling and leading.
It is possible to reduce the diameter of the nipples' cones in order to get a better fit with the caps. Oversized caps can be used if pinched to help keep them in place.

To seat caps, I have lowered the hammer onto the cap, and gently pressed it forward. Be cautious if you try this.
 
You can use several types of mixtures, the important part is not to forget to do it! Try and pinch them slightly to secure them to the nipple.
 
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tiriaq said:
Check that the passage through the nipples is clear. As mentioned, make sure the caps are seated all the way on the nipples.
The paper cartridges used originally used very thin nitrated paper (or animal membrane). Not paper cartridges as used in a musket.
No harm in using over powder wads, but that doesn't affect ignition. Might help with fouling and leading.
It is possible to reduce the diameter of the nipples' cones in order to get a better fit with the caps. Oversized caps can be used if pinched to help keep them in place.

To seat caps, I have lowered the hammer onto the cap, and gently pressed it forward. Be cautious if you try this.
Click to expand...

I meant I would load loose powder and ball with a wad instead of using paper cartridge, the paper cartridges were made using a kit from guns of the west and it uses cigarette paper I might try that hammer method next time I go out
 
fightinghamster said:
I seal them with bees wax and lambs tallow mix but I’m pretty sure the caps are not all the way on the nipples would #10 nipples fit better if this is the case ? The #11s don’t feels loose
Click to expand...

#10 caps are smaller than #11 and probably won't go on if the 11's feel snug and don't fall off. Examine the nipples closely to see if they have been mashed or mushroomed from dry firing. That can give the problems you describe.of the cap not firing. Do they go off if hit twice? If so it's probably not defective caps.

The combination of a difficult to ignite substitute powder and the paper cartridges combined could definitely prevent ignition or cause hang fires. Hotter caps, thinner paper or eliminating it or using teal bp are all likely to help.

There are lots of little details and tricks to getting your guns working reliably and it's tough to cover every possibility without being there. The ideal answer is to find someone with experience to shoot with. Maybe there's a club or some bp enthusiasts who you can meet up with in your area? Otherwise keep trying different things and asking here. Lots of us have been shooting them for years and will answer as well as we can.

Keep at it!
 
vagrantviking said:
#10 caps are smaller than #11 and probably won't go on if the 11's feel snug and don't fall off. Examine the nipples closely to see if they have been mashed or mushroomed from dry firing. That can give the problems you describe.of the cap not firing. Do they go off if hit twice? If so it's probably not defective caps.

The combination of a difficult to ignite substitute powder and the paper cartridges combined could definitely prevent ignition or cause hang fires. Hotter caps, thinner paper or eliminating it or using teal bp are all likely to help.

There are lots of little details and tricks to getting your guns working reliably and it's tough to cover every possibility without being there. The ideal answer is to find someone with experience to shoot with. Maybe there's a club or some bp enthusiasts who you can meet up with in your area? Otherwise keep trying different things and asking here. Lots of us have been shooting them for years and will answer as well as we can.

Keep at it!
Click to expand...

I cleaned the navy’s up and pulled unburnt paper from every cylinder also the nipples seemed clean but I cleaned em anyway also also it might be me but the hole in the nipples seems kinda small but I have nothing to compare it too so I guess it’s supposed to be, It feels like the hammers on both guns are dragging on the frame so I might take some sandpaper to it in the future
 
OP,
Clean the bore.
Clean the cylinder bores w/ nipples removed.
Lightly oil the barrel bore & cylinder bores.
Clean the touch hole of each nipple.
As mentioned inspect the nipple tips for mushrooming from firing & blend the mushroom out w/ a needle file.

Lube the threads of each nipple & rethread back into the cylinder.

Install the cylinder into the frame.

Ditch the paper patching.

Prior to loading any propellent into the cylinder.
Apply a cap onto each nipple
Shoot each cap to clear any lubricant/oils from the nipple.
Load your powder charge into each cylinder bore.
Install a fiber -Wonder Wad- that is caliber specific over the powder charge.
Seat a projectile in each cylinder bore.
Go back around & re-check that each projectile is seated against the powder charge.
Wipe the sheared projectile lead rings off of the cylinder face.

DO NOT apply any grease over the projectiles.

Apply caps to each nipple.
#10 caps are smaller in dimeter that #11 caps.

IF,the caps fit loose...pinch each cap to tighten their fit & to hold them on each nipple.

IF,a cap falls off a nipple....STOP shooting & re-cap that nipple.

Chain fires happen from a nipple w/out a cap in place.
Ignition come in the aft end....not the front end.

Projectiles are a PRESS/SHEAR fit....SPARK PROOF.

40+ years of shooting Colt design & Remington design Ruger Old Army cap&ball revolvers & I've NEVER greased a cylinder & NEVER had a chain fire.
 
Just a comment on greasing the front of the chambers. Try it. Fire one shot. See if any grease remains on the mouth of the chambers adjoining the one that was fired.

Nipples can be chucked in an electric drill and spun against abrasive cloth, etc. to polish them down if necessary.

Flash holes in nipples need to be small - unless you want the revolver to be self cocking, even attempting to become auto.

Colt revolvers, when new, were set up so that the hammer didn't impact the nipples. It would stop close enough to fire the cap, but with enough of a gap to prevent the nipples from getting battered.
 
I use this way for my Uberti's:

- I clean the cylinder with alcohol and lightly lubricate the exterior before going to the range.
- When I make paper cartridges I use cigarette paper because it's thin, nothing else.
- After loading I grease the front of the chambers
- I push the primers on the nipples with a short 3/8" dowel
- Rusty Wood Trading and Rangeview Sports have black powder on hand.

After each range sessions I strip all of my my black powder guns in parts to the last screw for a total cleanup.
 
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8ball said:
I use this way for my Uberti's:

- I clean the cylinder with alcohol and lightly lubricate the exterior before going to the range.
- When I make paper cartridges I use cigarette paper because it's thin, nothing else.
- After loading I grease the front of the chambers
- I push the primers on the nipples with a short 3/8" dowel
- Rusty Wood Trading and Rangeview Sports have black powder on hand.

After each range sessions I strip all of my my black powder guns in parts to the last screw for a total cleanup.
Click to expand...


I used the cigarette paper for the cartridges but from what everyone has said I should get some black instead of pyro I’ll definitely check out those websites, I’m the same way with all my guns after a range trip
 
I use Pyrodex RS in my 1862 Pietta ditched the factory nipples for SliXshot can use #11 or#10 caps never had a misfire, I filled the hammer notch with JB weld no cap sucking
 
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