Hard Cast Bullets ???

cigar_man

cigar_man

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I responded to a post in the reloading section on cast bullets for a .50 BMG

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...5986-Anyone-reloading-cast-bullets-for-50-BMG

Hard cast bullets are needed for the Big Five Ohhh!

My question to others here, how do you make hard cast bullets other than messing around with strange alloys.

I have two methods using wheel weights or range scrap lead. (I prefer WW's)

1. Cast as normal and then, cold water quench

2. Cast as normal, size the bullet, bake in oven for 1 hour at 460-480f and then, cold water quench

Some information;

http://www.lasc.us/heattreat.htm#chart
 
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Water quenching adds little to hardness. There might be some surface hardness, but it is insignificant. Water quenching out of the mold, according to FortuneCookie45LC, achieves 2 or 3 BIN.

You & interested persons would do better to cast, then powder coat, your cast bullets. PC adds immense hardness that water quenching will never achieve.
 
Water quenching adds little to hardness. There might be some surface hardness, but it is insignificant. Water quenching out of the mold, according to FortuneCookie45LC, achieves 2 or 3 BIN.
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Also correct, but 2-3 BHN is not bad for plain water quench, but I do not use this method for the 50 BMG.

You & interested persons would do better to cast, then powder coat, your cast bullets. PC adds immense hardness that water quenching will never achieve.
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Thanks for the information.

I agree, powder coating does achieve hardness, but Im just not a powder coat guy, toooooooooo D@m Old School.

That being said, the number 2 method I listed ,,,,,, Oven Bake Heat Treatment, using ww's and a convection oven, (ahhh no wife to worry about)

"Cast as normal, size the bullet, bake in oven for 1 hour at 460-480f and then, cold water quench"
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achieves a BHN anywhere from 20 to 30ish
 
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cigar_man said:
Also correct, but 2-3 BHN is not bad for plain water quench.



Im just not a powder coat guy, but that being said, the number 2 method I listed ,,,,,, Oven Bake Heat Treatment,,,, "Cast as normal, size the bullet, bake in oven for 1 hour at 460-480f and then, cold water quench" achieves a BHN anywhere from 25 to 30
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Heat treatment depends on what you are starting with.

Pure lead doesn't get much harder so you need arsenic and antimony. Tin helps with fill out but doesn't add much to hardness.

Linotype is tough to find but there are outfits that will make up whatever alloy you ask for. Western Metals was looking at doing that but I'm not sure what they decided.
 
Heat treatment depends on what you are starting with.

Pure lead doesn't get much harder so you need arsenic and antimony. Tin helps with fill out but doesn't add much to hardness.

Linotype is tough to find but there are outfits that will make up whatever alloy you ask for. Western Metals was looking at doing that but I'm not sure what they decided.
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I am talking about using wheel weights with a convection oven,,,,

Kind of weird;
I edited my statement to include using ww's and a convection oven, (ahhh no wife to worry about) at 04:13 and you posted my statement at 04:15 without my editing.
ohh well.

I have a lot of Linotype at my disposal that I have accumulated over the years.

We have a local company, MarsMetal in Burlington, Ontario that will make up what you need, but not cheap by any means.
 
cigar_man said:
2. Cast as normal, size the bullet, bake in oven for 1 hour at 460-480f and then, cold water quench

Some information;

http://www.lasc.us/heattreat.htm#chart
Click to expand...

Those temperatures need to be approached carefully - some antimony / lead alloys will start to droop around the 450-460F mark. They don't melt at that temp but there will be a flat spot where the bullet was sitting on the pan and they are ruined.

Conventional convection ovens have some shortcomings to keep in mind. The temperature showing on the stove could be off by 40-50F from actual temperature inside the oven, so test a few bullets before you do the whole batch. And the actual temperature inside the oven varies from top to bottom - it can be 20-30F warmer at the top of the oven than at the bottom rack.

Get a $5 oven thermometer put it on the sheet with the bullets and watch that, it will be your best indication of real temperature.
 
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A few years ago I experimented with oven heat treating WW bullets. Sized them & then baked them at about 440 degrees F (just under slumping temperature) for around 30 minutes and then cold water quenched them. I didn't have a hardness tester at the time so I don't know what they were on the Brinell scale but they were too hard to indent with a fingernail so they were pretty hard.
 
If the OP is interested in hardening bullets best to go to the Cast bullet Forum. There is little in this thread that helps the OP. For the record common solder is 50 - 50 lead/tin. No antimony to be found. Tin will add some hardness but is an expensive way to harden lead. Tin does help with mold fill out though.

To the OP consider adding gas checks to help prevent gas cutting, a major source of leading. I have shot water quenchd WW alloy bullets with a GC up to 2200 fps with no evidence of leading in my Longbranch. In my 30-06 I have gone to 1,700 fps with just water quenched bullets with no leading. Pretty common if you have the right fit for your gun.

Take Care

Bob
 
not rocket science go to Roto metals and order some tin. Cheap like borsch. throw tin into pot. 20-1 lead tin will harden up your bullets. U will have to have a scale to weigh your lead and tin. U will also have to use a bit of math to figure out weight of tin to lead ratio.
This is part of the fun of shooting black powder old school rifles. Or U can reshearch using wheel weights and their different alloy mixes so U can identify which ones U want and which ones to discard. Go to fortunecookie45lc.com if U want to know about throwing bullets.
 
eaglesnester said:
not rocket science go to Roto metals and order some tin. Cheap like borsch. throw tin into pot. 20-1 lead tin will harden up your bullets. U will have to have a scale to weigh your lead and tin. U will also have to use a bit of math to figure out weight of tin to lead ratio.
This is part of the fun of shooting black powder old school rifles. Or U can reshearch using wheel weights and their different alloy mixes so U can identify which ones U want and which ones to discard. Go to fortunecookie45lc.com if U want to know about throwing bullets.
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Duuuude....50BMG
 
While not rocker science you do have to know what you are doing. Antimony is the hardening agent in bullets. Tin will add some hardness but not near as much per volume as Antimony. Nobody I know of who shoot higher velocity rifle cast bullets does so with just lead/tin alloys.Black powder and cowboy loads are low pressure loads that don't require hard bullets. If the OP is serious about casting .50BMG cast bullets he is going to need way more than 20-1 cast bullets.

To the OP this is an excellent article you might want to read. Flexall has written other articles on the subject. Google is your friend.

http://www.sixguns.com/crew/castbullet.htm

Get yourself a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition as well.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
While not rocker science you do have to know what you are doing. Antimony is the hardening agent in bullets. Tin will add some hardness but not near as much per volume as Antimony. Nobody I know of who shoot higher velocity rifle cast bullets does so with just lead/tin alloys.Black powder and cowboy loads are low pressure loads that don't require hard bullets. If the OP is serious about casting .50BMG cast bullets he is going to need way more than 20-1 cast bullets.

To the OP this is an excellent article you might want to read. Flexall has written other articles on the subject. Google is your friend.

http://www.sixguns.com/crew/castbullet.htm

Get yourself a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition as well.

Take Care

Bob
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I think he might have thought 50 black powder...
 
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