Hard Cast Lead Bullets for Reloading

smokingunns

smokingunns

Member
Rating - 100%
22   0   0
Location
Fraser Valley
Hi,

I've been reloaded about 500 rounds of a locally produced hard cast lead bullet...they seem to work okay for plicking and target practice but it occured to me that they may cause damage to my match barrel.

I'm loading loading these 180gr lead bullets with a 4.4gr Titegroup powder...will this cause leading in the barrel????

If so, would the CMJ or Copper Wash be any different?

Reason for trying/using lead bullets...sheer cost factor. I can get it half the cost of CMJ/Copper wash and much cheaper than FMJ.

Thanks in advance.
 
Lead is softer than copper and will wear the barrel less.

How much are you shooting? With lead, a barrel should last 50,000 to 100,000 rounds without loosing accuracy (the rest of the gun would likely need to be worked on). Copper plated would be just a bit less.

You will get throat erosion due to hot gasses from the powder/primer before you wear out the barrel.
 
What is the lead your using alloyed with. How hard is it. After reading the Lyman reloading manual several times, I don't believe that any hardede lead could damage you barrel.

But if you do get leading, be careful to clean it all out. Depending on how bad the leading is you could cause problems for your barrel if the leading is too bad.
 
drvrage said:
What is the lead your using alloyed with. How hard is it. After reading the Lyman reloading manual several times, I don't believe that any hardede lead could damage you barrel.

But if you do get leading, be careful to clean it all out. Depending on how bad the leading is you could cause problems for your barrel if the leading is too bad.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the responses!

I'm not really sure what alloy is being used...I've heard the "leading" in the barrel but I'm not exactly sure what this is and what to look out for?

I clean and check my barrel after each outing at the range and its still shiny inside....what should I look for if the barrel is "leading"?

The second question I have is the rifling in the barrel...I don't have another gun to compare rifling to so how do I know when the barrel rifling is worn?
 
smokingunns said:
Thanks for the responses!

The second question I have is the rifling in the barrel...I don't have another gun to compare rifling to so how do I know when the barrel rifling is worn?
Click to expand...

Worn is when accuracy decreases. It is unlikely you will see any reduction in accuracy until you are upwards of 50,000 to 100,000 rounds, or more if you are using lead.

Most modern pistol barrels will easily go several hundred thousand rounds, still have visible, reasonably sharp rifling, and accuracy that might have opened up a couple of inches at 25m, compared to when it was new.

If you are going to be firing enough ammo to worry about wearing out a barrel, then the cost of the ammo, even reloads, will FAR exceed the cost of the gun.
 
Last edited:
SandRoad said:
Worn is when accuracy decreases. It is unlikely you will see any reduction in accuracy until you are upwards of 50,000 to 100,000 rounds, or more if you are using lead.

Most modern pistol barrels will easily go several hundred thousand rounds, still have visible, reasonably sharp rifling, and accuracy that might have opened up a couple of inches at 25m, compared to when it was new.

If you are going to be firing enough ammo to worry about wearing out a barrel, then the cost of the ammo, even reloads, will FAR exceed the cost of the gun.
Click to expand...

Good point on the cost of ammo vs. cost of the barrel.

With regards to accuracy, I guess that would depend upon how consistent you are to notice the difference that the barrel is causing the inaccuracy ;)

sunray said:
What cartridge?
Click to expand...

Some once fired brass (bought factory ammo and began reloading with them)...some brass I bought from a local supplier (claimed as once fired).
 
Leading is caused when the combination of lead softness and bullet velocity are so much that a little lead is left over in the barrel after each shot. After shooting a number of rounds, the lead will build up and up and up until accuracy degrades. Technically if left long enough you could eventually dammage your barrel as the lead buildup can form a partial blockage in the barrel impeding future bullets from passing though.

You can detect leading by running a bronze brush through your barrel a few times and look closely for very small grey flakes of lead falling out. If you see any, you've got leading. The scrub the hell out of it with a good lead solvent and lots of bronze brush scrubbing.

The long term solution to prevent leading is to go to a harder casting of lead bullets and/or use a smaller powder charge to reduce velocity.

Again the Lyman reloading manual explains all of this in excellent detail. I highly recommend you buy it (lebaron's etc...) and put is by your bedside table for some night time reading.

Good luck.
 
Dont make the mistake I made by using a stainless steel brush.
Stainless is far harder than a brass brush, and will scratch the bore. Once the bore is scratched, it is more likely to collect lead in the future.
 
What leading means is...fire some bullets threw your gun... then make sure its safe and inspect the bore... look down the barrel towards the chamber and you should be able to see defined rifleing in your pistol barrel... leading normally happens in pistols using very hard lead bullets I know because I make them... I made my first batch of 5000 way to hard after fireing about 10 bullets my barrel looked like a smoot bore this means extream leading of the barrel... with the correct hardness for the caliber you should not get any leading in the barrel after firing lets say 200 -300 bullets at a time... I can confirm that after 30000 lead cast bullets my barrel is just fine... normally lead cast bullets are loaded slower then then FMJ and should prolong the life of your barrel.

Even something like a nylon brush can harm the barrel... if you have a leading problem and you want it cleaned properly you can buy from brownells "lewis lead remover" is a special tool that uses a brass screen to clean the lead out of your barrel.

Another issue with leading is the bullets not being lubricated properly I assume your buying bullets that are commerically made useing a grease/wax grove sometimes people use wax thats is a bit to hard and it can cause leading if its not lubricating properly as its traveling down the barrel.

One more tip if you dont want to invest in a lewis lead remover fire about 20 -25 FMJ down your barrel and it should clean any leading out from firing lead cast bullets.

4.4 titegroup sounds like 40 S&W to me...
 
Last edited:
I use cast lead bullets or swaged lead bullets for 99% of my shooting and expect the barrels to out last me.

One thing to watch out for if you cast your own bullets. A common source of the basic lead is wheel weights. Bullets made from wheel weights can have a lot of extra crap in it that can cause barrel erosion.

When I used them I made a point of heating the lead up higher and doing some extra fluxing and stiring, hoping to get al the sand particles out of the mix. I never did look under a microscope to see if this helped.
 
Last edited:
Depends if you cast directly from wheel weights to bullets or melt the weights to ingots then bullets....

I normally melt 200 lbs of wheel weights at a time using my home made propane melter... you dump in all the weights then melt then I take a spoon type device and collect all the steel clips from the weights then I take a steal mesh strainer and collect the small debrise of the top then I get my ingot molds going... normally once they have been cast into ingots and then remelted down there is very little slag and byproducts left over...

I have been trying to get some wheel weights for a while now and seem that they are very hard to obtain... I been using reclaimed range lead as a trial seems to be fine also.... but nearly %50 of collected range lead has other non useable items in it.

A friend of mine is in the tire business but even he is having trouble getting them from his customers that they sell tires too... I got in contact with some tire companies Canadian Tire... guys are driving up to two hours away from where they live to come collect these weights and I cant even get them from stores around the block from me because they are coming to collect them.
 
msg.drew said:
What leading means is...fire some bullets threw your gun... then make sure its safe and inspect the bore... look down the barrel towards the chamber and you should be able to see defined rifleing in your pistol barrel... leading normally happens in pistols using very hard lead bullets I know because I make them... I made my first batch of 5000 way to hard after fireing about 10 bullets my barrel looked like a smoot bore this means extream leading of the barrel... with the correct hardness for the caliber you should not get any leading in the barrel after firing lets say 200 -300 bullets at a time... I can confirm that after 30000 lead cast bullets my barrel is just fine... normally lead cast bullets are loaded slower then then FMJ and should prolong the life of your barrel.

Even something like a nylon brush can harm the barrel... if you have a leading problem and you want it cleaned properly you can buy from brownells "lewis lead remover" is a special tool that uses a brass screen to clean the lead out of your barrel.

Another issue with leading is the bullets not being lubricated properly I assume your buying bullets that are commerically made useing a grease/wax grove sometimes people use wax thats is a bit to hard and it can cause leading if its not lubricating properly as its traveling down the barrel.

One more tip if you dont want to invest in a lewis lead remover fire about 20 -25 FMJ down your barrel and it should clean any leading out from firing lead cast bullets.

4.4 titegroup sounds like 40 S&W to me...
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct...40 S&W.

I do buy locally and they have the wax on the lead bullets...I don't think I've fired enough to really tell you if they are good or not but I seem to get the same accuracy as the factory FMJ that I bought from a retailer. Some of the other guys that buy these state the bullets are of good quality.

I did check my barrel (after I cleaned it with a brass brush and bore cleaner) and don't see any leading (at least I don't think I see any)...I see is very shiny inside and the clear rifling.

The question would be...are the bare lead bullets better or worse than the CMJ or Copper Wash.

Thanks again for everyone's assistance on this.
 
msg.drew said:
Depends if you cast directly from wheel weights to bullets or melt the weights to ingots then bullets....

I normally melt 200 lbs of wheel weights at a time using my home made propane melter... you dump in all the weights then melt then I take a spoon type device and collect all the steel clips from the weights then I take a steal mesh strainer and collect the small debrise of the top then I get my ingot molds going... normally once they have been cast into ingots and then remelted down there is very little slag and byproducts left over...

I have been trying to get some wheel weights for a while now and seem that they are very hard to obtain... I been using reclaimed range lead as a trial seems to be fine also.... but nearly %50 of collected range lead has other non useable items in it.

A friend of mine is in the tire business but even he is having trouble getting them from his customers that they sell tires too... I got in contact with some tire companies Canadian Tire... guys are driving up to two hours away from where they live to come collect these weights and I cant even get them from stores around the block from me because they are coming to collect them.
Click to expand...

BTW, when are you getting new .45acp bullets in?
 
Hopefully soon it takes a while to get them sent up from hornady... hopefully this upcoming week or next week...

Lead bullets are fine... copper plated, copper washed, FMJ are just for showing off... have your lead bullets bounced off the paper yet? Just kidding they are perfectly fine for paper punching.
 
Wheel weights

"I have been trying to get some wheel weights for a while now and seem that they are very hard to obtain... I been using reclaimed range lead as a trial seems to be fine also.... but nearly %50 of collected range lead has other non useable items in it.

A friend of mine is in the tire business but even he is having trouble getting them from his customers that they sell tires too... I got in contact with some tire companies Canadian Tire... guys are driving up to two hours away from where they live to come collect these weights and I cant even get them from stores around the block from me because they are coming to collect them."

Have you checked the price of scrap lead recently?I know several tire shops that sell them for the $$$Last time I looked in Sask price was $1.60/lb
 
mmm the going price around here is $25 for a 2.5 galon pail which is about 90-100 lbs raw weight when you seperate everything you get about 60lbs of raw lead for casting...

I think who ever is selling it to you at 1.60 is ripping you off my chart is showing .75cents per lbs and this isnt scrap lead either...

Dynamic_fChart_cPrice.asp
 
What wears out a barrel is the ratio of propellant to bore area. Sierra has had the same 45acp test barrel for several lab employees. They expect it to last for many more. It is probably the longest lasting combo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom