HARD EVIDENCE: Why the Soviet SKS45 NEVER saw action in WW2
- Thread starter Boris Badinov
- Start date
Read the detailed sks history by Ruslan Chumak at the link shared above by both Horilka and Vudu666.
It very specifically states that there were preliminary field tests of two rifles in July of 1941. After those tests, further design changes were made and an order was made a year later in July of 1942 to produce 50 carbines for further testing. However, because war manufacture of the prototypes was delayed until May of 1944.
These are the prototypes about which Chumak very specifically states. "there were no tests in combat conditions"
The SKS was not used in The Korean War either.
Had it been, the C.I.A. would have been aware of it's existence well before the 1955 report on the New Soviet 7.62 intermediate cartridge and Semi-automatic carbine.
See the C.I.A. link in the OP.
@Vudu666-
Please read the article you linked.
Two rifles were field tested in 1941. The sks30 and the sks31.
After that 1941 test, no more SKS prototypes were made until may of 1944. And those 5-round, fixed magazine prototypes weren't tested in combat.
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
SKS45 is the Model we all have idea of how it looks like, which is production model of 1949. Was being produced for Soviet army in the same period as Korean war was being fought. None available for export. Million of Soviet soldiers still waiting for their own SKS.
Where would Korean/Chinese army procure SKS from?
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Look Borisik, SKS45 is final prototype that soviets completed for adoption. They had many other prototypes that did not meet or qualify the criteria that army needed. They tested and trialed so many that even authors of published books could not care to mention as the info still to this day may be classified. Those variants could not be called SKS45, as SKS45 is the final product which was adopted for mass production in 1949. This mass produced version of SKS45 is the version they set up for production in China later on in the 50's
Lots of made up stuff here.
If you've got actual sources provide them.
The Chumak document has been shared at li east three times already. I can only assume you've not yet taken the time to read it.
As it stands there were a total of 2 completed sks rifles in 1941. The SKS 30 and the SKS 31.
There were no other SKS prototypes made until May 1944.
That was the final prototype made during the war. In 1945 the final design was completed. In 1949, after 4 more years of testing it went into full production.
No SKS variant or ammo prototypes were used in combat during ww2 or Korea
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gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
US would not know what Soviets were adopting before the adoption of the new weapon system made in mass present itself either on Parade or in war zone. Even soviets themselves could not field in 1955 all SKS they needed. Some units were still issued M44s. I'm not talking all units. But SKS role is not for actual combat, its role is secondary in Soviet doctrine. AK and RPD later RPK were designed for actual combat troops.
SKS as its predecessor M44 was more relegated to guard troops, air defense troops and rail troops.
Chinese PLA and Vietcong made combat weapon out of SKS.
Not red army in WW2
Canada wouldn't know what the Soviets were doing during ww2 either.
Thankfully, we have Ruslan Chumak, Soviet military historian and his detailed history of the SKS development.
And we have his claim drawn from his research of archival Soviet documents that regarding the sks "there were no tests in combat conditions"
Cant help ya any more than that, gewhwer.
Thankfully, we have Ruslan Chumak, Soviet military historian and his detailed history of the SKS development.
And we have his claim drawn from his research of archival Soviet documents that regarding the sks "there were no tests in combat conditions"
Cant help ya any more than that, gewhwer.
you two missed the point or am i missing something? nothing to do with "seen" or "exported", it has to do with "none of them built at those times (korean war) yet" . how could a 1949 NOT be built when korean war was started a year later?
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Apart from SKS being the most popular carbine in Canada, what does Canada has to do with it? Soviets and Canada were allies in ww2.
Obviously you did not read my earlier comment about SKS being used through out Soviet part of WW2 in shape of PTRS41.
Simonov and his colleagues scaled it down, made it in new cartridge and put bayo on it. All this work was done during WW2 so you can not deny that some examples of this rework saw trenches.
By the way, thank you for starting this tread, always entertaining.
Simonov may have had a hand in designing the PTRS41, but it was most definitely not an SKS.
My pleasure. And thanks for saying so.
heck no... Mao was pissed when the soviet didnt join in the fighting (korean war), he was really pissed off when he found out after the war the soviet was holding out on him with the lastest weapons (sks and ak).
someone should notify the NRA museum of their error: "However, war broke out in Korea, and both the North Korean and Chinese armies relied heavily on the SKS as a primary infantry arm."
https://www.nramuseum.org/guns/the-...earms/sks-type-56-semi-automatic-carbine.aspx
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Sure it is, its definitely not production model of 1949, but we are talking about preproduction testing so to speak.
Saying that PTRS is not SKS is just as saying that AR10 is not AR15 yes they are not, but they are same in design.
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AR10, AR15 and the SKS are all battle rifles-- each with a barrel short enough to be considered carbines.
If you were to add a bayonet to its already 4-foot long barrel, the PTRS41 antitank rifle would be 8 feet long. It is essentially a small cannon, and most definitely NOT a sks Carbine.
If you were to add a bayonet to its already 4-foot long barrel, the PTRS41 antitank rifle would be 8 feet long. It is essentially a small cannon, and most definitely NOT a sks Carbine.
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