Hardcast Lead for .45-70

500 gr. jacketed bullets are usually designed for a longer oal. and don't have a crimping groove in the right place for the Marlin '95..... you could force the crimp with a lee factory crimp die but I dont know if it would hold the bullet from slipping into the case....any how the bullet would have to be seated so deep it would cut into the powder space and create higher pressure and you would be crimping on the tapered part of the bullet! In the Ruger #1 though the 500gr. Hornady S.P. is excellent. In the Marlin why not use a heavy WFN cast bullet with the crimp in the right place for the lever gun??
 
Our "bullet box" testing shows all kinds of bullet failures from light jacketed bullets travelling at 2200fps.,most 400gr.jacketed bullets fail as well, the 400gr. Speer being the worst culprit, just bits of copper and lead left. Many cast bullets fail as well because they are either too soft or too brittle...all at speeds of 1800-2200 fps.
 
baldtop said:
Does anyone out there know of a Canadian source for either hardcast .45-70 projectiles, or factory ammo loaded with hardcast projectiles? Check this link.

www.garrettcartridges.com
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As mentioned, the Bullet Barn in Vancouver has hard cast bullets with a Brinnell hardness number of 25. A CGN member, Win94, was able to bring down a moose with one of the Bullet Barn's offerings in 38-55. I've handloaded the 405 grain lubed triple grooved offerings without gas check and found them to be accurate in my former 1895 guide gun. Was planning to use this gun hunting this fall, but a 1886 Winchester made itself available and I wound up trading the 1895 guide gun off. Guess I'll have fun with the 1886 and an 1895 CB and Winny 71 and on and on....

As for quality factory ammo with hard cast bullets, none exists in Canada to my knowledge (if I'm wrong, please let me know).

Your best bet would be to contact the Bullet Barn and get some of their bullets and have fun developing handloads for your 1895.

CGN, Leverguns.com, Marlinowners.com,Shooters Forum, and Cast Boolits would be good places to check out for information on loads as well as doing a search on Google.

Have fun!:)
 
baldtop said:
Thanks for the Bullet Barn info. Is the red tape involved in importing Garrett cartridges so onerous nobody is willing to do it?
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Garret will not ship to Canada, period. Just reload, thier loads are nothing special.
 
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ben hunchak said:
Ergo: A hardcast 480gr. flat pt. with high s.d. will out penetrate a 350 or 400 gr. jacketed bullet when that jacket strips off and the remaining soft lead goes to pieces,thats not crap,thats life!!
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Where do you get this stuff from :rolleyes:

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Looks to me that this one held together fine.
 
.............I killed a moose with a .38-55 using Bullet barns 245 grain plain based hard cast chugging at 1600 fps. Distance was 125 yards. No bullet recovery and said moose dropped like a rock. I also had great groupings with my Marlin guide gun shooting their 405 grain plain based bullet which Prosper has been using.

...........as far as i am concerned though, when you are dealing with a 45 cal bullet, expansion is the least of your worries. Your bullet is .459" for cripes sakes!!! How much expansion do you need or want???:rolleyes:
 
crazy_davey said:
Where do you get this stuff from :rolleyes:

2006_0522Image0011.JPG


Looks to me that this one held together fine.
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Measuring those images with the ruler tool in Photoshop, it seems that it expanded to around 1.08"
 
The emphasis on hard cast bullets is a mistake I believe. I note people go to hard cast or heat treated mainly because they cannot get the accuracy they want at the velocity they desire.

A properly fitted 20-1 lead tin bullet with good lubricant will shoot well in some calibers up to 2.1 to 2.3 k. There is some variance between calibers depending on twist rate of the barrel; the faster twist usually requiring a lesser velocity to prevent stripping.

The key is to play with different bullet diameters and lubricants until you find a winning combination.

A 20/1 cast bullet will expand well and penetrate well even at velocities below 1600.

There is a place for very hard bullets but for most N.A. hunting they are not required or desirable. In examining wound channels in game I have shot the softer (as cast hardness) bullets win hands down. I only use heat treated bullets for particular purposes of playing with stretching initial velocity or where I can't cast a bullet large enough to suit the rifle and get the accuracy I wish.

Anyone looking for suitable cast bullet rifles: first, slower twists are usually friendlier to work with and bullet fit is paramount. General lore has it that .001 larger than groove diameter is the way to go. It's a place to start but I have rifles that absolutely require .003 larger than groove and with good hunting loads shoot 1" groups consistently .
 
I am getting excellent accuracy from the Speer jacketed 400 grain flat point over 56.0 grains of Varget for 1780 fps muzzle velocity. I shot a calf moose moose through the ribs with this load last year, and found the slug under the skin on what would have been the exit wound side. Dead moose, but an exit wound would have been more desirable. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
 
I cast Lyman 457193 that come out at 418 gr from my alloy (I beliece that was some 1:30 I was trying for BPCR). Pushed by a healthy dose of 3031 they go charging along at 1950. Haven't been lucky enough to shoot a moose with it, but it knocked the hell out of a mulie buck I shot with it at a shade over 100 yards. I think a tad harder would be better, maybe even the 1:20 I'm using now btu there' snothign wrong with those loads I've got now...except that they're in brass cases instead of nickel plated. I live in fear of one ending up in a BPCR rifle by accident so they're well labelled and stored seperately. Still, I'll be remedying that situation in the near future.
 
prosper said:
Measuring those images with the ruler tool in Photoshop, it seems that it expanded to around 1.08"
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Measured it and it is 1.02, pretty close I would say! Especialy using photoshop :eek:

I have some others, right around 1.00 seems to be the average.
 
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