Harrells Precision Powder Measure & Baffle?

L

LloydM

Regular
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
40   0   0
Location
SE Alberta
This may be a bit of a newb question... I have been reloading for a while now, but I have never used a powder measure before. Weighing every single charge was getting old so I picked up a Harrell's Precision Classic Culver powder measure. None of the Harrel's measures come with baffles in the powder bottle, but I know that many powder measures do. So a few questions:

Are the Harrell measures designed to be used without baffles?

Could I use a different powder bottle that had a baffle - and if I did, would that do anything for me in the way of throwing more consistent charges?

Since the idea of the baffle is just to keep the same amount of powder above the metering chamber at all times, can't I use this principle with the Harrell measure. They (Harrells Precision) like to think they are the best, but are their measures so good that they don't need a baffle?

edit
...well I couldn't resist trying it out - for my first 5 charges the weight only varried by 0.06 grains as measured on an Acculab scale which displays accuracy to the nearest 0.02gr. This was at a target weight of of 12.7 grains using H335. Once I increased the charge to 23.5 grains I tried a couple more which fell within 0.04gr (low of 23.48 / high of 23.52). I also noticed that the bottle screws onto a 'cap' on the measure which funnels the powder through a 1/2" opening - so I guess the cap performs a function similar to a baffle... but I still think a baffle would do a better job and would like to try one. But what do I know?
 
Last edited:
LloydM said:
T
my first 5 charges the weight only varied by 0.06 grains as measured on an Acculab scale which displays accuracy to the nearest 0.02gr. I tried a couple more which fell within 0.04gr But what do I know?
Click to expand...

I think you know how to buy a very accurate powder measure. Wow!
 
I've never considered using a baffle, as mine is consistant from top to bottom of the bottle. I typically don't let the powder go lower than about an inch from the bottom of the bottle before I top it off though.

I use mine in conjuction with a Dillon 550b - works like a charm!
 
No need for a baffle. My Harrells is extremely consistent and gave up weighing charges ages ago. :)
I actually bought mine from his shop in Virginia where he makes them. Watched the CNC machines manufacture them.
 
LloydM said:
Well it had better be accurate for the price I paid! When you shoot as bad as I do you need to make up for it wherever you can ;)
Click to expand...

Loyd,
I have exactly the same issues only magnified. :D Unfortunately I did not have your good sense. I bought a lyman measure and have to trickle up to weight on every casing.
I have read a number of reports regarding the accuracy of the Harrels. I shoulda spent the dough.
 
I've heard of them, but have never had the pleasure of playing with one in person.

I'd be curious if you were to throw 50 charges of Varget (say 45 grains) how the weights would show up. (FWIW my Redding BR-30 will have the vast majority of these within a 0.5 grain window, but over the course of 50 charges there always seems to be a small number that open up the interval to about 1.0 grains).

Congrats on having a piece of premium gear, sleep soundly knowing that some are jealous of you!! ;-)
 
rnbra-shooter said:
I've heard of them, but have never had the pleasure of playing with one in person.

I'd be curious if you were to throw 50 charges of Varget (say 45 grains) how the weights would show up. (FWIW my Redding BR-30 will have the vast majority of these within a 0.5 grain window, but over the course of 50 charges there always seems to be a small number that open up the interval to about 1.0 grains).
Click to expand...
Daniel,
I went through the process years ago with electronic scales, baffles in my RCBS measure, etc. Looked at Harrells and a Neil Jones Customs Products. In fact, due to my traveling job was able to inspect both and watch manufacturing take place. The Harrells won out because of price. Once you get one of these the other measures just sit there. I think you know my results @ 900 meters from the past. ;)

Now I just set a number and start throwing. Every once in a while I check it on the balance beam. Still right on or within .02 gr. + or -.
I've got plenty of extra bottles for various powders all ready to go at my whim. It's a quick change accurate powder measure. :)
 
I was very close to buying a redding measure before I heard about Harrells. The Redding catalogue lists models BR-30 or 10X at $267US. You can buy a Harrell for $180, $220, $245, or $310 US. I think the Harrells are all suposed to be roughly the same accuracy wise, but the most expensive unit, which I went with, comes apart for thorough cleaning - and its pretty! Being able to screw on the bottle which the powder comes in is a major bonus too; I think all the Harrell measures work this way.

Later today I may throw a larger number of charges and weigh each one to see what kind of variance I get - 5 is not a good sample size. I am only going to be throwing H335 or US869, I think I will still weigh the IMR stick powders; well I will probably at least try them out, but I do not expect as good of results.

I would still like to try out a baffle - maybe I would just be wasting my time, but it would satisfy my curiousity.
 
beltfed said:
I've never considered using a baffle, as mine is consistant from top to bottom of the bottle. I typically don't let the powder go lower than about an inch from the bottom of the bottle before I top it off though.

I use mine in conjuction with a Dillon 550b - works like a charm!
Click to expand...

How do you mount the measure on a Dillon? From the pictures I've seen, they don't appear to have 7/8"-14 threads that would allow an adapter to be used to fit the powder die.
 
Lloyd I have a old Lyman 55 measure with a baffle plate about 1." above bottom of plastic
reservoir. When loading 748win powder 25gr it will throw dead on 25gr every shot if you use the same motion and pressure with your wrist, never more than + or- 1/10.and 85% dead on. If powder goes bellow baffle plate then there is a change 2/10gr. I load directly into cases (222rem) for hunter class shooting.
This 55 measure has a Culver insert, you see these measures at times on ebay and other sights the seem to bring in the $ 200 to $250 range I know all benchrest shooters used the baffle plates
manitou
 
LloydM said:
IThe Redding catalogue lists models BR-30 or 10X at $267US.
Click to expand...

Ack, are they really *that* expensive these days??!! (I paid about USD90 for mine, so that probably means a $120-ish list price, in 1994-ish)

Later today I may throw a larger number of charges and weigh each one to see what kind of variance I get - 5 is not a good sample size. I am only going to be throwing H335 or US869, I think I will still weigh the IMR stick powders; well I will probably at least try them out, but I do not expect as good of results.
Click to expand...

With a good measure (which you certainly have!) it is not unreasonable to at least test how well thrown charges work. Speaking here of .308W target rifles, and with my BR-30's performance as indicated above, I find that thrown charges of Varget are good enough (as in, match-winning good-enough) out to 600m.

And with some loads that are quite uniform, it is even possible to get away with thrown charges with ammo used for 1000 yard shooting (where variations in velocities will show up as a vertical spread in the group size). My load for old #2155 Sierra 155s is good enough that I am willing to shoot it in competition with thrown charges. My load for Lapua 154s isn't as good, so I end up weighing those charges to the nearest tenth. I hope to be able to find a "throw-worthy" load with the Sierra #2156s and/or Berger 155.5s that I intend to use this season.

I would still like to try out a baffle - maybe I would just be wasting my time, but it would satisfy my curiousity.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like Harrell is a small enough outfit that you could probably phone them up and speak to Mr. Harrell all about this; surely he has thought about this and done a fair bit of testing of his own. Not only would this be a great conversation to have, but it might either eliminate the need in your mind to try it out to be sure, or perhaps it might suggest a useful way to do your own testing.
 
rnbra-shooter said:
It sounds to me like Harrell is a small enough outfit that you could probably phone them up and speak to Mr. Harrell all about this; surely he has thought about this and done a fair bit of testing of his own. Not only would this be a great conversation to have, but it might either eliminate the need in your mind to try it out to be sure, or perhaps it might suggest a useful way to do your own testing.
Click to expand...

I think I will do that, and I will have great respect for whatever he says, but that does not necessarily mean I won't experiment anyway. For example, the instructions say something along the lines of "some people like to tap the arm at the top and bottom of the swing to improve accuracy - we have not found this to be the case, and it may in fact hurt accuracy". I could not resist testing that theory. I threw and weighed a bunch of charges yesterday and found the following: out of 20 'untapped' charges, all loads fell within 0.12 grains (23.50 - 23.62gr). After discovering that some powder remains stuck up somewhere in the measure I threw another 20 charges, tapping 3 times at only at the bottom of the throw in an attempt to knock it down; again the charges all fell within 0.12 grains (23.42 - .54gr), but with a lower average weight. 20 is not a huge sample size either, but is just enough that I can somewhat see a bell curve forming in the data. The 'tapped' charges all fell as follows (23.xx grains):
48, 50, 48, 52, 52, 52, 44, 46, 54, 50, 54, 44, 48, 52, 48, 46, 44, 42, 48, 50.

I would probably need a sample of at least 50 before I could conclude anything more definite, but I am not going to spend any more time on it. With the data I have, it looks like the 'tapped' charges win for me just because most of the charges centered around 23.48gr, and I was looking for 23.5gr
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom