Has any one built a cannon?
- Thread starter rempel429
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fingers284
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You need to do some research I'm thinking.....The U.S navy claims that compressed BP will easily attain 100,000 psi pressures (modern day testing performed 20 yrs ago or so). And the first BP book I ever owned, a Sam Fadala volume has photos of him blowing up a muzzleloader barrel, it split from end to end.
I could probably damage my 1851 Colt if I compressed the BP. Also could do a lot of other dumb slit and cause damage but that’s another story.
That is a .50 caliber barrel with a bore about 8" long.
Do you really think that you could get a round ball going fast enough to exceed the 10000 joules energy limit?
A lead round ball for .50 caliber weighs close to 200 grains. To make 10000 joules energy, it would need a velocity in the neighbourhood of 4000fps.
That just isn't going to happen with 8" of bore.
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cannons and other guns with primitive ignition systems are not considered firearms.... it literally states in the Criminal code of Canada that "antique firearms" are not considered firearms by law.... the gun lobbys and their lawyers know this, but are stating otherwise simply to lure more allies into the fight against OIC.
You'd need over 4000 fps to get to the 10000j limit.
Have you ever owned or fired a BP firearm?
I would like to think that Murray 3-D is correct; that the guns deemed or prescribed to be antique are exempt. I agree with his opinion. But my opinion doesn't really count for much at the best of times, and I know that Justin and Bill couldn't care less.
Just think how much safer society will be after the big Newfoundland sealing guns have been gathered up and destroyed. Many, or most, of those are over 20mm bore diameter.
As far as black powder pressures go, you will often see suggestions that black powder is a low pressure propellant - black pressures are always lower than smokeless pressures, etc.
That is simply not true. Black powder can, under certain circumstances, generate high pressure, right up there with some smokeless loads.
Black can be forgiving sometimes. It can be difficult to blow up a muzzle loading gun with an overload of black. Look at the British proof load tables.
I know of a modern Brown Bess barrel that was tested with 700grs of powder and three balls, without an damage. I have only managed to blow out one breech plug while experimenting. That was in a Belgian shotgun barrel - and it turned out someone had previously messed up the threads.
There are barrels which have failed while being used with black powder. But almost invariably there has been a compounding factor; the barrel was already compromised.
The OP started this thread about cannon building. There may or may not be legal issues. There are also safety issues. Original cast cannons did burst on occasion; so did some early wrought iron and steel guns. Some homemade cannon barrels are made from materials never intended to serve as gun barrels. Golf ball cannon are popular. There are also reports of golf balls bouncing back, whence they came. At high velocity.
Just think how much safer society will be after the big Newfoundland sealing guns have been gathered up and destroyed. Many, or most, of those are over 20mm bore diameter.
As far as black powder pressures go, you will often see suggestions that black powder is a low pressure propellant - black pressures are always lower than smokeless pressures, etc.
That is simply not true. Black powder can, under certain circumstances, generate high pressure, right up there with some smokeless loads.
Black can be forgiving sometimes. It can be difficult to blow up a muzzle loading gun with an overload of black. Look at the British proof load tables.
I know of a modern Brown Bess barrel that was tested with 700grs of powder and three balls, without an damage. I have only managed to blow out one breech plug while experimenting. That was in a Belgian shotgun barrel - and it turned out someone had previously messed up the threads.
There are barrels which have failed while being used with black powder. But almost invariably there has been a compounding factor; the barrel was already compromised.
The OP started this thread about cannon building. There may or may not be legal issues. There are also safety issues. Original cast cannons did burst on occasion; so did some early wrought iron and steel guns. Some homemade cannon barrels are made from materials never intended to serve as gun barrels. Golf ball cannon are popular. There are also reports of golf balls bouncing back, whence they came. At high velocity.
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Dark Alley Dan
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I wish Murray was right. But he is not. Fuse-lit tubes are now specifically banned by the OIC:
https://www.armalytics.ca/?size=n_1...[3][values][0]=3" MORTAR&filters[3][type]=any
It's a silly horsesh!t decision, but a net cast as wide as this one was is bound to catch some silly, silly stuff.
https://www.armalytics.ca/?size=n_1...[3][values][0]=3" MORTAR&filters[3][type]=any
It's a silly horsesh!t decision, but a net cast as wide as this one was is bound to catch some silly, silly stuff.
It is not clear to me where that definition comes from; is it taken from the FRT tables or just an opinion by Armalytics (whoever they are). In reference to Murray 3D, antiques are firearms if they are used in a crime. We also had a case here in BC of a person prohibited from owning firearms was later convicted of owning antique firearms because the original prohibition did not distinguish between modern and antique guns
cheers mooncoon
Check out the Traditions "Old Ironsides" 70 cal naval cannon kit for about $300 USD. They are an easy build and a hoot to shoot either with wadded newspaper as a blank charge or .690" round balls . And they are easy to hide.... just sayin'
I will agree that nothing in our legal system is really certain, every minute of our lives we face the chance of being accused with some blown out of proportion or misconstrued charge. We all know somebody who has experienced such a thing at some point in their lives.
The armalytics entry in question:
this is a generic screen for a firearm that has been specifically made by an individual such as the owner, machinist, or a local gunsmith..... good thing by law a Antique Firearm is by legal definition not a firearm.... hence why one does not need a Firearms license to own one.... Could a officer misinterpreting such a thing lay a charge anyways? yes, would it stick? i bet not.
on the other note, when a crime is involved really anything can become anything. Airsoft guns get ya firearms charges... rolling pins become assault weapons... diet coke and mentos probably becomes explosives lol
OIC effects what legally classifies as firearms in Canada...
Saying such a thing effects flintlock muskets and fuse cannons is like stating a transport law banning "Farm Tractors" from highways also therefore bans "Tractor Trailers" that a farmers happen to own.
Saying such a thing effects flintlock muskets and fuse cannons is like stating a transport law banning "Farm Tractors" from highways also therefore bans "Tractor Trailers" that a farmers happen to own.
I just got back guys , LOL, it is a piece of iron with a frigging hole on one end , The touch hole is not drilled all the way.
It is a project I picked up at one of the Calgary Easter gunshows I use to do. I have a lot of Projects over the years, but running out of time.
I know what the stupid OIC says. I have bigger fish to fry, this is not one of them .
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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I suspect you haven't read the OIC word for word. Both 20 MM and 10,000 J sections have the words "create a new firearms class"...pretty much includes fuse cannons.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Again , where in the OIC does it specify that you can only use a 200 gr ball...nowhere...maybe the "tester" at the RCMP lab uses a 1 lb projectile with a short 50 cal spud on the end,in front of 300 gr of black. no where does it say that anything they do has to be safe, regularly done nor is there any specification that the projectile must stabilize...it just has to move. The door is open for that tester to do anything to prove a point in a courthouse for a n over zealous liberal minded prosecutor.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Actually yes I have, I regularly fired 300 gr.-1/2 lb charges and I can assure you that the J limit is easily reached many multiple beyond at BP attainable velocities of 1300 fps or so.
Figure out the J value of a 1lb projectile at even 500 fps and guaranteed it would be close to over-limit.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Of course you are right...with a ball of 200 gr or so, and I miss-spoke when I implied a common ball...but nowhere in the OIC does it specify that a common ball must be used in the testing facility...put a 1 lb. projectile in front of a barrel full of powder and I can guarantee you the needle will exceed the J limit.
And another thing to think about that you brought up...there is already a section of the firearms act that can be used to pro-hib muzzleloaders that have a "mule ear" hammer. they can easily be fired, reloaded while holding the trigger back, thumb the hammer back and let er go again...you just fired two rounds with one single pull of the trigger...and that's a pro-hib.
This is a 1/2" bore 8" long.
How are you going to get 300gr of powder and a 1 lb projectile in it?
