has any one used cast lead bullets in their M14?

hitch.bd

hitch.bd

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I got onto casting lead bullets for my 9mm and .357mag. Later I started to cast lead bullets for my 30-30. I was wondering if anyone shoots cast in their M14? Cheaper to shoot, what with the amount of people I take out shooting, would be good. Anyone have any input or real world experience would be great! Thanks, Hitch
 
I'm going to do it. I plan to turn off the gas system first, this way I don't shoot gobs of wax onto my piston. I have those 173g gcrn hard cast boolits made for 30-30 rifles that I want to try in a 308. I think I'll use imr3031 with 30grains and see if that's accurate
 
If you check out Castboolits.com, I recall them having a rather lengthy thread by an Springfield M1A owner who experimented with a wide range of powders and perhaps a few bullet molds over a period of months.

I haven't tried it yet but am considering designating a Norinco to cast bullet. I was also thinking of reloading jacketed bullets in a subsonic or low velocity sonic load with Trail Boss for use with the gas system cut-off. I'll probably be too busy for the next couple of months.
 
I'm happy to hear I am not the only one to want to do this.
Rocket sergery, how do you mean "turn off" the gas system? I'm assuming this would turn it into a streight pull action like a bolt action or Ross rifle?
Looking forward to hearing more guys so as you add input I'll be watching and hopefully be adding to it.
 
Hey... just a thought to avoid the wax in the gas tube issue and still have the fun of the semi auto, would making paper patch bullets work? I know it's more work but do you think it would work?
 
I shoot cast bullets in my #4 Mk2 (bolt gun). For a higher velocity, would the bullets not have to be gas checked? Also, for cast, reloading reference manuals suggest slow burning pistol powders and fast rifle stuff. I use unique.

The M14 was designed based on specific tolerances with respect to the powder burn rates and the gas pressures created. The cast bullets require substantial changes to loading and performance.

For example, a 174 gr bullet in my Enfield is spec'd out at 2,400 fps. With a cast, the maximum suggested (with gas check) is 1,700 fps or a reduction of about 40%.

I'm not sure that the M14 platform is designed to function or even shoot a cast bullet. The question would be why?

I am planning to hunt with My Enfield and will use good bullets. I also shoot targets and compete with it. For that, the cast are way cheaper to load and easier on the barrel with no compromise to the functionality or performance of the rifle.
 
Sobo you're right, the m14 was built to perform with 147-174g bullets. You load for pressure before accuracy, because if you just go for accuracy, your gun may not work unless you turn off the gas

You can turn the gas system off by turning that slot screw on the side of the gas system. You're still going to have the guts underneath rattling around, so accuracy may not improve. Paper patch bullets might work but the wax might seep through, just a thought. You'd have to cast them to like .306 and then patch them I'd think, but i'm not a pro on that subject.

Regardless of how you do it, I still think you're going to get some wax in the gas hole, so I'd want to get in there with a tooth pick after I shot a few rounds. Just take off the gas band and gas assembly and you'll see the gas hole in the barrel, a wooden pick should get the goop out no problem
 
I have an old Springfield Armory (1942) Garand that I shoot cast bullets out of. I am not at home right now, but I load them to function the action. I have fired around 2-300, or maybe more, and so far no trouble. I believe the bullets are 150 grain Lee gas checked, probably linotype/ww mix #2ish. :)
 
lot's of people shoot cast in M-305-M1a's and Garand's. It works fine. For a real good writeup, go to "Cast Boolit's website. Under the Classic posts, find Shooting cast boolits in an M1a thread. It is OP'd by a fellow named Bruce B (a Canadian expat), he has put around 3500 Cast Boolits thru his base grade M1A.
 
This same topic came up last month

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=715040

Don't reinvent the wheel--- > cast bullets in 308/ m1a m305, m14
Check out
ht tp://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=3558

the originator of that thread has several Thousand cast bullets down the barrel of his m1a and shoots them at long range too with full function

Several pages of information are on the castboolits site
Note the twist on his rifle is 1:11 so you will not get his exact same performance with a 1:10 twist (velocity/groupsize/pressure/function)

For your information I shoot cast in a norinco

the worst thing you can do in a semi is

1)if the nose is too long/big and touches before the bolt is closed
(slamfire/open bolt fire)

2)use the wrong powder
3)use too much of the correct powder (leading inaccuracy)

Hints Facts on cast bullets that one of my friends has given me and has taken more time than any other rifle I have loaded for

4)
1/10"
With this twist using 150 gr cast you will have trouble maintaining accuracy at an acceptable level (upwards of 1950 fps) while maintaining 100% functional reliability. Reason being by the time there is sufficient gas port pressure for functional reliability the fps will be above 2000 fps.

Functional reliability can be had with medium burning powders and very good accuracy with the 170 - 200 gr bullets in the 1800 - 1950 fps range. Given a well fitting bullet of appropriate alloy and design the RPM threshold is going to be in the 1900 - 2000 fps range with this 10" twist. Accuracy will begin to deteriorate once the bullet crosses it's RPM threshold.

Slow burning powders can be used with the 200 gr bullets but ignition consistency can be a problem if velocities are to be kept under 1950 fps (about where the RPM threshold will be with a 10" twist, a good load and good cast bullets).

1/12" twist;
The RPM threshold for this twist will allow (given appropriate bullet fit, alloy and powder) very good accuracy upwards of 2200+ fps, sometimes 2300 - 2400 fps if all is right on. Thus functional reliability can be had with medium burning powders with all of the bullets mentioned including the 150s. However, the slower "medium" burning powders up through RL19 or AA4350 will probably give better accuracy above 1900 fps than say, 4895 or 3031. I find the RCBS 168 gr silhouette bullet or Lyman's 311299 to be very good bullets for higher end 7.62 loads in milspec chambered M1As with 12" twists.

I do every thing you should not do
I shoot cast
I neck size (with the odd full length/aneal thrown in) 10-20 loading on the same set of 50 brass
During the summer I shot 400 cast rounds with out cleaning and it was still clean
Click to expand...

with a semi the most important thing to getting the action working correctly is port pressure, when and only when that bullet passes the gas port
too high and you bend/ break things.
too low and you get jams/non extraction/not picking up rounds

if you read my comments about barrel twist and velocity
if your rifle has a 1/10 twist, if you were using a bullet 150g to 210g (if they would fit) the fastest you could push it is 1800-1900 fps top velocity 1950 plus
the lower weight bullets never build enough pressure to work the action

Just a note to people thinking about cast, some powders are position sensitive so a 30 cal 150g bullet with powder XYZABC in(for example)
30-30 is 15g
308 is 17g
30-06 is 22g
300 win mag 23g
so all the above loads the powder charge just rattles around in the case
Less than 80% of the case is powder maybe as little as 50%

a jacketed bullet load will have more than 75% of a case filled with a start charge

to get powder to be not position sensitive a filler must be used and a bit of research needs to be done because some powders do not need a filler
some powders can be dangerous with a filler etc etc.

I have used 5 different powders in the 308 with 3 different bullet weights
and have had different problems.
I have kept velocity down and the worst leading I had came out with one pass of a brass brush

worst target --> could not get a group at 100yds 8x11in target
thought scope was broken end result (velocity was too high)

loose primer pockets after 2 firings (presure up there --> 5" group at 100 5 rounds brass taking a beating with full function

the load I am working on I think is it --- for one bullet weight
Click to expand...

Some people are now wondering about my group size, my last trip to the club @ 100 the first load of a increment load, --- 5 shot group of was 4-3/4 inch (was the worst)

my last increment load (5 rounds loaded only) of the box of 50, I did a 5 shot 2-3/8 group-- could have been a fluke, next trip going to try to do it again
3 of the 5 rounds could be covered with a quarter
On top of it I forgot my rear bag at home, if that was a good thing or a bad thing I do not know

going to do some 10 round groups then I will Know if it was a fluke or not
not even sure what will happen when it gets warmer 70-80-90-100 deg f
Click to expand...

you will need to use a bullet with a gas check

you will need a cast bullet sized to .309 or .310 or bigger

Do not try any fast powders( ie trail boss) in a semi
not a expert but Im not going to try to it

I also have a bolt gun I shoot cast out of -- just a run of the mill hunting rifle with 4-16 scope on it and it will shoot sub 1 inch groups @100
 
Yes 30-30 flatpoints sized .309 or so will easily work in a .308. Most any bullet for a 30-30 will work in a .308, but do not load pointy tip bullets in your 30-30. At least not if it is a tube fed action.
 
Yes I have used them in a m305. I think I used a 160 grain bullet, hard cast and gas checked loaded down to 30-30 levels. I would not shoot alot of them the gas system would be difficult to scrape the leading out of.

If you are looking for cheap plinking maybe check frontiers 30 carbine bullets from marstar these are plated so there is little chance of leading the gas system.
 
I shoot cast out of my polytech all of the time. Anyone who says it bungs up the gas system doesn't know what their talking about. I have about a thousand rounds of cast through mine, and have took it apart to clean the gas system several times, and have found nothing. I shoot lyman 180 grain (can't remember the mould number), shooting lighter cast is not better. I load mine with 31 grains of 748, and my bullets are sized to .310 and gas checked. Accuracy is o.k, I'm getting 3 inch groups at 100 yards. Which isn't nearly what I can get with jacketed. But I can load em for less than 20c a piece so I am not complaining. Perfect light recoil plinking loads, love loading 100 of em and blasting them all off at the range for less than a 20 dollar bill.
 
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