This is totally the opposite. The faster the the bullet, the more damage to the bullet and the less bullet there is left to ricochet. The .17 cal. bullet coming from an HMR at 2600 fps hits the ground and there is nothing left. A .22 LR bullet will only slightly deform and bounce around with all of its weight carrying significant energy. For safe shooting, the 17 HMR can't be beat.
Has the high cost of HMR made you change to a M2?
- Thread starter brucecorporal
- Start date
choices
I'd like to see how anyone can load 223 for 500 rounds for $150.00 which is about the price of a brick of HMR.
500 223 bullets is pretty close to $100.00, $125 if you shoot ballistic tips. Go ahead please show me. FS
I'd like to see how anyone can load 223 for 500 rounds for $150.00 which is about the price of a brick of HMR.
500 223 bullets is pretty close to $100.00, $125 if you shoot ballistic tips. Go ahead please show me. FS
CZ lists .17 HM2 as "Discontinued 2010" on all models. Savage is only offering it in 2 models this year in .17 HM2 vs. 23 models for .17 HMR.
The writing is on the wall...
notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
250 .50 gr Nosler BT is $60 x2
1000 primers $40.00 x.5
Brass is $35/1000 x .5
Powder is $35/lb x4
A pound of powder is 7000gr, @ 25gr.... per pound is 280 loads per lb (call it 250) per lb
Total cost for 500rnds (from scratch) is $297.50......
And thats premium ammo..... My pet load gives me consitant groups under 3/4" @ 200y.... My best 5 shot group to date was .41" @ 200y.
17HMR is closer to $21/50 around here.
Now if I load up the cheapest stuff I can find (Privi from Mystic Precision) which still shoots pretty well. That stuff is half the cost of the Nosler bullets @ $110/1000 so toatl cost for 500 rnds is $232.50/K. Which is about $20 more per 500. For that price differance I can and will shoot .223 over 17HMR!
Cheers!
Just about any meaningful 223 load will take $10.00 worth of powder to load 100 rounds. So that leaves you $17.00ish. Take off $3.00 for primers. So what kind of premium bullets do you buy for $14.00 and where do yopu get them? I want to stock up.
I have both the M2 and HMR. I have plenty of ammo for both, don't care what it cost anyway, and have no intention of getting rid of either. Coupled with a 22lr and a .223 they make a complete arsenal for the gopher patch.
To all the penny pinchers out there, maybe take up airguns. They are supposed to be really cheap to shoot.....
- Location
- Sudbury, On
.22LR > .22MAG > .223 > .17HMR > .17HM2
/end thread
/end thread
- Location
- Sudbury, On
joe:
We don't really have gophers up here.
We don't really have gophers up here.
You don't really have trees either...
I wouldn't be putting the .22 WMR ahead of the .17 HMR, and if the rifle manufacturers current offerings are any indication of buying trends (which they are), neither are the majority of the others. Newer models like the Savage TR are only being offered in .22LR and .17HMR. Same in the CZ line-up. That would seem to indicate that the .17 HMR has overtaken the .22 WMR in sales. The major rifle makers and the ammo makers work in conjunction with each other.
I wouldn't be putting the .22 WMR ahead of the .17 HMR, and if the rifle manufacturers current offerings are any indication of buying trends (which they are), neither are the majority of the others. Newer models like the Savage TR are only being offered in .22LR and .17HMR. Same in the CZ line-up. That would seem to indicate that the .17 HMR has overtaken the .22 WMR in sales. The major rifle makers and the ammo makers work in conjunction with each other.
- Location
- Sudbury, On
I can buy .22 mag for under $10 a box.
- Location
- Sudbury, On
I have a VERY healthy stash. Keep in mind, my .22mag was my sole firearm for nearly five years... And if there was anything I hated more, was not having a LARGE supply of multiple types of ammo variety.
Using prices posted by one of our newest dealers.
500 rounds once fired brass-$40
Higginsons prices
55gr Hornady Soft Point $13/100 or 500 for $65
Powder at $29 /lb $50
Primers $38 per 1000 $19
Total of $174 for first 500
$134 for next 500 rounds reusing brass.
Using brass 10 times gives an average cost of less than $150 per 500 rounds.
First of all, I prefer gopher hunting and general plinking. Nothing can dethrone the .22 LR for plinking. It's still the first pick for that. Out to 50-75 yds, it rules.
Now, I haven't tried the hmr, so can't comment on it's ability. The price of ammo is just too high to interest me in investing in a gun. I'd rather handload 22 hornet. But, handloading with a lee loader is a bit of a pain, so I don't do that often. That's why I switched to .22 LR years ago from .22 hornet for gophers.
However, I have tried the hm2, .22 mag and .22 LR on gophers, and for me, the hm2 is at least as good or better than the .22 LR when using better ammo, like velocitors, etc. The ammo cost is the same, the range is better and the accuracy is as good or better. The .22 mag is not generally as accurate (for me, but flame on) and ammo costs more. I like it, but I definitely prefer the hm2.
To those who like to slam the hm2, try it in the gopher patch and in many cases I think you'll change your mind. It shoots much like a hopped up .22 LR, i.e. stinger, etc. Why did they invent the stinger? To do what the hm2 can do. However, I don't bother with stingers and yellowjackets anymore, since accuracy has always been abysmal.
Regarding availability, hm2 guns will become scarce in the next few years, no question. Try to find someone willing to part with a cz in hm2. SakoAlberta sells out of them fast. I'm hoping he gets some more in.
Regarding ammo availability, the 17 gr bullets are made by hornady for eley and hornady ammo, and my understanding is that these are the same 17 gr bullets used in the hmr. So, they will be available for a while based on that assumption.
To make a hm2, you need a .22 LR case and a bit of tooling to form the neck and load the bullet. Minimal tooling allows a .22LR manufacturer to produce it, which is certainly true if you can buy just the bullet from Hornady. It's about the cheapest investment possible for a manufacturer to keep making hm2 or to start up. If you couple this with the fact that hm2 is more popular in Europe than here (so I've heard), I expect that hm2 ammo will be available for some time to come, as long as someone is willing to import it. To me, only the cost of ammo in the long run can kill the hm2 in Canada, and that's why I'm stocking up. I think HM2 is slowly gaining the popularity it rightfully deserves, which is generally only among guys like myself who have decided its excellent for gophers, and actually better than the .22 LR for that, when shooting out to 100 plus yards accurately.
Now, I haven't tried the hmr, so can't comment on it's ability. The price of ammo is just too high to interest me in investing in a gun. I'd rather handload 22 hornet. But, handloading with a lee loader is a bit of a pain, so I don't do that often. That's why I switched to .22 LR years ago from .22 hornet for gophers.
However, I have tried the hm2, .22 mag and .22 LR on gophers, and for me, the hm2 is at least as good or better than the .22 LR when using better ammo, like velocitors, etc. The ammo cost is the same, the range is better and the accuracy is as good or better. The .22 mag is not generally as accurate (for me, but flame on) and ammo costs more. I like it, but I definitely prefer the hm2.
To those who like to slam the hm2, try it in the gopher patch and in many cases I think you'll change your mind. It shoots much like a hopped up .22 LR, i.e. stinger, etc. Why did they invent the stinger? To do what the hm2 can do. However, I don't bother with stingers and yellowjackets anymore, since accuracy has always been abysmal.
Regarding availability, hm2 guns will become scarce in the next few years, no question. Try to find someone willing to part with a cz in hm2. SakoAlberta sells out of them fast. I'm hoping he gets some more in.
Regarding ammo availability, the 17 gr bullets are made by hornady for eley and hornady ammo, and my understanding is that these are the same 17 gr bullets used in the hmr. So, they will be available for a while based on that assumption.
To make a hm2, you need a .22 LR case and a bit of tooling to form the neck and load the bullet. Minimal tooling allows a .22LR manufacturer to produce it, which is certainly true if you can buy just the bullet from Hornady. It's about the cheapest investment possible for a manufacturer to keep making hm2 or to start up. If you couple this with the fact that hm2 is more popular in Europe than here (so I've heard), I expect that hm2 ammo will be available for some time to come, as long as someone is willing to import it. To me, only the cost of ammo in the long run can kill the hm2 in Canada, and that's why I'm stocking up. I think HM2 is slowly gaining the popularity it rightfully deserves, which is generally only among guys like myself who have decided its excellent for gophers, and actually better than the .22 LR for that, when shooting out to 100 plus yards accurately.
You challenged someone to show you how a person could load 500 rounds of 223 for $150,and I posted an example to prove that it can be done.I may not use those exact components,but it can be done.Then again,I do come upon some great deals on components that are well below what a person would pay at WSS,and even below Higginsons.However,a person needs to look for such deals,and be willing to buy bulk.
As far as being a premium guy,I do like my Lapua brass,and V-max bullets,but then again,I would rather use the Hornady softpoint out of a 223 at a coyote 300 yards away than a v-max out of a 17HMR.The one thing that I don't like about either the 17Mach2,or the 17HMR is that due to case forming issues,cracked cases seems to occur now and then with both cartridges.It isn't a safety issue unless you are using a Semi auto,but I still don't like the idea that it does happen.However,I do overlook that issue because of the cartridges other attributes.
The energy a .223 can put into a gopher at any range will kill it instantly with cheap fmj bullets. So comparing .17HMR to it is moot. .17HMR is just too expensive for me to justify not using the .22 magnums I have already. I can remember paying colse to $15 a box for Win SuperX 40grJHP's. Now I can buy them for a little over $10 including tax. They kill gophers dead out to 200 yards on a calm day with a good rest. And my cleaning rods fit, didn't need to buy a special .17 rod.
Shot some magpies during hunting season from the farm's shop. They were baited with cleaned deer carcasses. My pal likes his .17HMR. We shot both the .17HMR and the 22Mag. Range was 30 yards. I'm not sure but those magpies didn't feel the difference. And the puff of feathers both looked the same.
Shot some magpies during hunting season from the farm's shop. They were baited with cleaned deer carcasses. My pal likes his .17HMR. We shot both the .17HMR and the 22Mag. Range was 30 yards. I'm not sure but those magpies didn't feel the difference. And the puff of feathers both looked the same.
Not quite .223 but close. I can load my .204 Ruger for under $150 per 500 simply by stocking up on components when they are cheap. Below are the actual prices I paid for components I have on hand.
500 Barnes Varmint Grenade bullets $45 (on sale)
500 primers $23
1.75 lbs Benchmark bought in bulk $45
500 .204 brass $120 (divide by 10 loadings for $12)
Total is $125 per 500 for a round that vastly outperforms either the HMR or HM2. The rimfires do have one very nice bonus though. You don't have to pick up your brass.
If you were to load a .223 with components from Higgensons you would also fall below the $150/500 mark. Once fired brass is almost free and powder is $26/lb. You can shoot cheap bulk bullets that will outperform the HMR in range and terminal impact.
But, as I said before. Shoot what you like. I'm sure that most people are like me and have gone through several calibers to find something they like. I also find great satisfaction is using my own handloads to shoot tiny critters real far away. To each his own.
Glock4ever
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
I have 4 rimfire calibres (17HMR, 22WMR, 22LR, and 17M2), I load 22 Hornet and 223 Rem, as well. They all serve a purpose and you can't really compare them as they have different range bands/terminal performance. I like to use 22LR for targets and some gopher duties but I stopped using it for anything heavier. The 17 HMR is a nice gopher/groundhog/prairie dog round and I will choose either that or the 22WMR for hunting but I do like the 17HMR for target shooting which is where the round really shines. The 17 Mach 2 was the only round that didn't seem (at first) to fill any sort of niche for me. After shooting her at the range, I like how accurate it is and how inexpensive it is compared to 17HMR. Regardless of the calibre the rimfires are all really nice because I can shoot without having to be too careful about how hot the barrel gets. The 22 Hornet and 223 Rem are great rounds for hunting - they both explode gophers really well but are primarily used for coyotes. The key advantage to the Magnum Rimfires and even the 17M2 is that they allow you to shoot long strings without worrying about ruining the barrel. I tried using a .223 once for a gopher shoot and ended up putting it back in the truck. Ammunition for it is cheap but I was definitely not liking the muzzleblast (no ear defenders) and how hot the barrel would get after only 2-3 shots (CZ 527 American). It was not as fun to shoot on the gopher patch because while the explosion was nice, it was a bit of a drag to wait between shots for the barrel to cool down.
