have begun smelting my own lead

Ahh Rick - I knew you'd be back, they always do.
Ahhh... Andy... why wouldn't I respond? What sort of an "Aha!" moment was that supposed to be, anyways? You did post this to me in your previous response, remember:
Why not send Bill Ferguson an e-mail to confirm that's what he says
Doesn't that almost guarantee a response?

So I did as you asked, posted what he responded, and that's what I get from you? If I couldn't get a response, I assume your position would have been "See... nothing". Is your comment supposed to be some sort of a "Do you still beat your wife?" kind of thing?
It was amusing watching you desperately seeking support for your "cause" on the Cast Bullet List.
I'm glad you were amused. Now here's what amuses me:
  • You neglected to mention that all of those responses on the Cast Bullet List validated what I have said here - not your point of view. I'm glad you found that amusing, although hopefully it would have been more educational.
  • Although you apparently troll the cast bullet list as an invisible subscriber, you didn't feel up to arguing your point of view on this issue on the Cast Bullet List - on this occasion or any of the previous times it has been discussed. You certainly had the opportunity to argue your beliefs there among the real experts. I suppose there is a big difference between being trying to be a big fish in a small pond here at Gunputz and trying your luck on a forum dealing solely with bullet casters, not a few of whom have been into precision casting for years.
So now we know what amuses each other. Next time the issue comes up on the Cast Bullet List - as it does once or twice a year - I'll make sure you get an invitation to contribute instead of just continuing to hide your candle under a bushel basket by watching in the background without comment. You can try your personal dogma against that much more critical and informed audience than the general audience here on CGN and see how it goes.

One thing you won't have to worry about is somebody telling you you shouldn't be discussing that because it's harmful to do so.

Very impressive dissertation there Rick, but you never did answer my very specific question. I understand it all though - I have a Physics undergraduate degree and a Masters in Engineering (never saw fit to mention it on any forum before though, but that's all you seem to listen to), sadly not in Chemistry or Metallurgy though.
Most impressive credentials. You were talking earlier about dropping names - does that include dropping degrees as well?

Glad you feel you know it all - although you did post this earlier:
So just to be clear: Zinc melts at 785 F unless it's floating on molten lead, then it melts at 604 F?
If you did indeed know it all, why the confusion on your part as to how zinc can get into molten alloy at temperatures well below the melting point of zinc?

Pity you felt above putting your oar in on the Cast Bullet List and posting your opinions there instead of watching silently in the background while people were talking of solid antimony entering molten wheelweight - antimony having a melting point almost 400 degrees higher than zinc.

But again, the problem with posting on the cast bullet list is there's a large difference in the readers there and here on GunPutz, isn't there? Let's face it: there you're dealing with people whose central interest is bullet casting and competing in cast bullet benchrest competition, not a few of which have more years of bullet casting than you've been alive. Not quite the same audience to impress, is it Andy?

Problem is, it makes absolutely no difference to people who leave their desk and actually cast.
Feel free to post that up on the Cast Bullet List Andy... I'll watch for it. Start with the ones actually participating in the benchrest matches - they at least can prove they meet your criteria of leaving their desk. I'll look forward to that discussion. I don't know your username there, but it will be obvious enough when you make your appearance.

Here's the thing - guys like you hurt the Casting Community far more than you help. It's more than being "So theoretically minded you're of no practical worth", you actually harm the community by turning people away out of fear they'll do something wrong.

If you need to be right then, there you go, you're right. Now please do us all a favour and stop.
Thanks for your opinion. Particularly when it's coming from the guy who not so long ago was criticizing another user here for being critical of others who had a different opinion on an issue.

Now here's my opinion.

Guys like you are a real disaster. You have a narrow minded dogma that you cling to. You won't test that dogma of yours on a specialized list such as the Cast Bullet List where there's a large body of established experts to defend your dogma against. There, when these issues are being DISCUSSED (not condemned as something harmful to be spoken of) you just sit silently in the background - even when most of the discussion disagrees with your personal beliefs and you claim to have the degrees to understand all of this.

Now sitting in the background and clinging to your dogma isn't the disaster. What is the disaster is when you decide as you have done here: to appoint yourself the arbitrator of what should and shouldn't be discussed regarding bullet casting.

You apparently feel entitled to decide what concepts or issues your average bullet caster is intelligent enough to understand and what should and shouldn't be discussed. If you personally don't think it's appropriate, if it doesn't agree with your dogma, then you want others to stop discussing it. You want to declare them harmful, because they don't share your opinion on issues.

Simple disagreement is never enough for guys like you - although you can certainly fault others who are intolerant of views other than their own. No, those that disagree with you should just shut up so your personal approved belief system is the only one in sight. Sort of like the Obama approach to politics as it were.

It doesn't matter what the issue is, even if the subject were something entirely outside of casting or shooting, the attitude that you should be the one to declare what should and shouldn't be discussed and what people should and shouldn't be aware of is, quite simply, wrong. And that is my opinion on the matter.

Alternately - and worse - all of this is simply your attempt to be a big fish in a small pond. Here on Gunputz, there are relatively few bullet casters, and fewer yet who are doing anything approaching precision casting. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man has a chance to be king, and perhaps all of this is simply a play to be the big fish in the small pond by quashing all disagreement with The Rules as set out by you.

Either way, guys like you are a disaster in the making.

So now, we both know why each thinks the other guy is harmful. I will suggest to other readers that they can take both of us out of the equation by joining the Cast Bullet List and Forum. Not only does that eliminate our personal opinions/biases, but it provides access to people who have far more expertise in bullet casting than both of us put together.

And yes Andy, I will always place a higher emphasis on advice and information passed on by people like Bill Ferguson than on what people like you - or me - have to offer. If I have a question on physics I'll keep you in mind, but for metallurgy, I'll take the advice of the metallurgist any day.

Particularly when that metallurgist has been casting bullets longer than you've been alive.

Finally, thanks for the opinion that I should stop discussing what you don't feel is helpful, but until you're appointed moderator of all issues dealing with bullet casting, I'll post what I feel like on the matter.
 
All this is interesting but within a couple of years lead WW are going to be a thing of the past so I am going to have to bone up on my alchemy skills in order to continue with my hobby.
It can be pretty simple.

If you have any contacts/access to a hospital with a nuclear medicine facility, I have found it pretty easy to get the lead containers they ship the medical isotopes in. Might not be so easy anywhere near the coast where people are thinking about keels for sailboats, but I found them more than happy to give the containers away here, and I think I have a lifetime supply.

That's a very clean, free basis for a lot of lead that comes already as clean as you could hope for.

Alternately, find out who your local mills use for their babbit supplies. You being from BC, there's a good chance they deal with these guys:
http://www.purityalloys.com/Babbitt_and_Solder_Alloys.html

That's who made the stuff that I scavenged locally. I got just over a ton of "Nickle Genuine Babbit" and "#13" when the sawmill in town here was torn down back in 1998 just so they could get rid of what they felt was a hazardous nuisance (contains lead, you know). The sawyers used it for setting the chipper blades, chipping saws, etc. I could have had the furnace as well for free, but I would have had to build an entire building just to hold my casting equipment if I had.

Anyways, if you look at the composition of some of that babbit, I don't think you will find it hard to imagine a few that will allow you to ramp up pure lead to a desired alloy very easily. And for cheap.
 
GUNPUTZ !!!!!!!!!

Wow, that's condescending
Condescending? Do you get equally annoyed when you read some of our members describing themselves as rednecks?

Picked it up from one of the mods using it. Sue him if the slang causes you some angst.
 
blacksmithden, like the opening post said, I have begun smelting my own lead.

Have I told this thread how enjoyable this was ? :)
 
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Just to explain, here's the hierarchy among the Bullet Casting Community:

- the Elite. The Cast Bullet Association, its forum and list. These are the "Precision Casters" who apparently use a lot of wheelweight;
- the Blue Collar Crowd. Cast Boolits. The guys from above cringe at that name (ewwww). They are the guys who do most of the casting, and bring new folks into the activity, but don't understand a dang thing about it; and
- the Lost. Others like Gunputz who occassionally in biblical fashion are graced with a visit from a prophet but reject him and are then doomed.

Here's the head scratcher: the whole discussion has been about wheelweight and the possibility that trace amounts of zinc that would not affect castability might get into the mix. It doesn't matter.......
 
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Alternately, find out who your local mills use for their babbit supplies. You being from BC, there's a good chance they deal with these guys:
http://www.purityalloys.com/Babbitt_and_Solder_Alloys.html

Rick, I actually called these guys. A lady answered the phone, and said she could help me. I asked her if they supplied bullet grade lead, and she replied it could be done to order. She then told me that the price would depend on the quantity ( naturally ), so I said 500 pounds. She put me on hold , and came back with $1.93. I was a little surprised and chuckled a little, she asked if it was funny and I answered very respectfully, " a little bit". She hung up before I had a chance to say anything further. Nice outfit. These people should know ( not that they care ) that people on Ebay sell the same stuff for under $0.80 per lb.
 
These people should know ( not that they care ) that people on Ebay sell the same stuff for under $0.80 per lb.
I went and had a look on Ebay. Lots of small lots of linotype available (I assume that's what you were looking at), but I didn't see any of it at $.80/lb. Most of the bids were over $1/lb (US, of course). Still well below their quote. I also wonder if that cost per pound includes some charge for making up a specific alloy rather than just selling you x amount of one of their existing alloys.

I expect that 500 lbs would be a small order for them - the mill cast well over 500 lbs a day when they were setting teeth and blades.

Unless the operating pressures of your loads demand something that hard - and you don't feel like heat treating your bullets - it will be much less expensive to just find a source of free lead if WWs ever do disappear, and then add some tin/antimony to make the alloy you're looking for.

Check the nuclear medicine department at your local hospital for the isotope shipping containers. Tell them you cast little figurines or use it for modelling in case the words "bullet casting" fall on anti-gun ears...
 
Boy, such a toodoo,I thought ya just poured the lead into a mold, I shoot in and absorb all things CBA, and in those circles, everyone has their opinions and they are all valued, there is no need to dis others. We casters of the silver stream must stick together or the gubment will try to ban us.
 
Boy, such a toodoo,I thought ya just poured the lead into a mold, I shoot in and absorb all things CBA, and in those circles, everyone has their opinions and they are all valued, there is no need to dis others.
Yes, this is the first place I have ever heard anybody being told to keep their opinions or discussions to themselves. I find all of it interesting, even the areas of bullet casting that I have no interest in like schuetzen or guys using nose swages after casting.

Sometimes just pouring whatever you have into whatever you've got works fine, especially if it's just all about producing shooters. Great - who can argue with success? On the other hand, whether it is paying close attention to alloys or putting the money out for a custom mould, I think that can often end up being money very well spent... It depends on how serious you get (or perhaps more accurately what you're trying to achieve) - there's not a few people out there who haven't fired a jacketed bullet through one of their firearms in decades.

We casters of the silver stream must stick together or the gubment will try to ban us.
I'm kind of amazed they haven't tried yet. I think they probably have simply decided that there's too few of us to be bothered with.

In any case, I think I've stockpiled enough lead in the back 40 to keep me going for a few years if the usual sources ever do dry up. I just don't think lead is going to disappear from our society anytime soon.
 
I was actually going to try to get into casting my own bullets until I read some of this(too much bantering back and forth to read it all).

After all that it seems way to complicated to want to try.

I'm so:confused:
 
I was actually going to try to get into casting my own bullets until I read some of this(too much bantering back and forth to read it all).

After all that it seems way to complicated to want to try.

I'm so:confused:

If you really are interested in getting into casting your own bullets. Get hold of a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. Read it a couple of times and make up your mind then. Initial investment in equipment pays for itself quickly. You will shoot more and enjoy a new hobby. There really isn't to much to it.

Take Care

Bob
 
I will get a hold of the book. I just bought a 1000 158 SWC in 38 and it cost me $85.00. I was thinking that after the intial investment there has to be a cheaper way. I got into reloading to build cheaper ammo but I got carried away and after a big investment all I got was a great hobby and past time.:D

Thanks Canuck.
 
I will get a hold of the book. I just bought a 1000 158 SWC in 38 and it cost me $85.00. I was thinking that after the intial investment there has to be a cheaper way. I got into reloading to build cheaper ammo but I got carried away and after a big investment all I got was a great hobby and past time.:D

Thanks Canuck.
If you're just looking for shooters - rather than trying to cast bullets that will hold the X ring at 50 yards in a PPC match out of a Distinguished gun for example - I don't think you'll have many issues, especially if you don't try to hotrod them. You can have less than perfect pistol bullets and they'll still fly well enough for a lot of the handgun shooting many guys do.

An inexpensive Lee double cavity mould, a cast iron pot from a garage sale, and a decent (i.e. big) ladle will get you going for well less than $50 if you stick with tumble lubing and don't want to do sizing, seat gas checks, etc.

You'll figure out if you like it or not in a hurry. If you like it, you can start picking where to improve your casting equipment for speed and quality. I'd go to a big bottom pour pot as my next step, but some guys do swear they do better ladle casting.

I'd also suggest subscribing to the Cast Bullet List and Forum. Bullet casting is the single focus of both of those, and any problems or question you have will get answers very, very quickly.
 
I have seen sellers on Ebay offer lead ingots recycled from shooting ranges. At first glance, this would seem like ideal lead alloy. Nothing like pouring new bullets from old bullets.

Someone else cautioned me about range lead, seems the reason that with all these lead-free frangible bullets used on the ranges, the lead is getting possibly mixed with other metals such as magnesium which would not be good for lead melting.

I looked up some frangible sites, seems that these bullets are either copper or tin/copper scintered projectiles, no mention of magnesium.

Does anyone have any thoughts on range lead, and would it be ok to recycle?
 
I have seen sellers on Ebay offer lead ingots recycled from shooting ranges. At first glance, this would seem like ideal lead alloy. Nothing like pouring new bullets from old bullets.

Someone else cautioned me about range lead, seems the reason that with all these lead-free frangible bullets used on the ranges, the lead is getting possibly mixed with other metals such as magnesium which would not be good for lead melting.

I looked up some frangible sites, seems that these bullets are either copper or tin/copper scintered projectiles, no mention of magnesium.

Does anyone have any thoughts on range lead, and would it be ok to recycle?

Don't know if the above would be a problem but federal offers (or once did) a jacketed "zinc" bullet marketed under there "Ballisti clean" line as non toxic. It's available in most common center fire handgun and a .22 rimfire version.
 
Interesting thread and am reading with much excitement. I too have to get into smelting/melt/casting or what ever is ""politically" correct to call it :p
I've have a 4,000 lbs solid piece of lead fall into my lap (figuratively speaking of course) that I got on a job and is not residing in my garage.

So this Lyman's casting book is what a noob caster should get???
 
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