Have premium bullets made the 308 the logical "top of the food chain" in its family?

[Brian46]

I have no idea why you have decided to discuss long range hunting and criticisms of your long range hunting in a thread that was talking about the 308 family of cartridges being used at the distances 99.9% of big game is taken in Canada - well done derailing the thread.

someone else suggested magnums for long range work, I commented with larger calibers as well. I cant control where other people take the conversation. this is the internet

 

[Brian46]

Have premium bullets (especially the copper TSX and such) rendered the 338 Federal and 358 Winchester moot in the 308 family tree? Is there really anything (outside of a coastal brown bear or bison perhaps) in North America that a 308 stoked with a 165 grain TSX cannot anchor with authority within the reasonable (250 meters) distance that the vast majority of North American big game is shot at?

Do the 338 Federal and 358 Winchester actually bring anything "extra to the party" now that monometal bullets, modern powders, etc. have increased the lethality of the 308?

I have a 243, 7mm-08, and 308. Have long considered adding either a 338 Federal or 358 Winchester to the "stable", but not sure that I'll see any "real life" advantages over my 308 shooting 165 grain Trophy Coppers.

Opinions and personal experiences welcome!

I have a few different 308 rifles, all lighter euro stuff with 20" or shorter barrels. With 180 grain partitions I have hunted every species available in BC without issue or need for more gun provided short to moderate ranges are adhered to. see my above posts if interested in what works for increased distances

 

[GMC403]

I do both, I just don't limit myself to only one method. That way I can hunt these few special areas I found where there is always lots of game but are not approachable

I'm curious though, at what yardage do you consider hunting changes to "sniping" as you call it?

It was a friendly ribbing.......

I would consider it past 500y (or the bottom of most conventional BDC reticles)

But that is of course what the longer range cartridges are for.


Anyhoooo........ OP, The 308 win with a premium 165gr bullet is a do-all setup inside 300yds

 

[hoytcanon]

I thought we were discussing the .308 case cartridges???

I have a strong liking for the .308 case... at one time I had multiple rifles in each of the offspring... I like them all... they all have a place, but if the application is deer hunting then the entire lot are duplication. In grizzly country, I would prefer a .358 with 225 Partitions over a .308 with 165 TSX.

 

[drill702]

No it does not

 

[SuperCub]

I don't get why you think mono metal bullets have revolutionized the .308 Win? Does the .308 with a 165 grain TSX do anything more than a .308 with a 165 grain Partition? No. In fact the .308 never needed mono metal bullets as the velocity is quite tame. The real advantage of the mono metal bullets is they stay together with ultra high velocities.

^^ This is how I view using the TSX as well. ^^

 

[Jmac604]

Have premium bullets (especially the copper TSX and such) rendered the 338 Federal and 358 Winchester moot in the 308 family tree? Is there really anything (outside of a coastal brown bear or bison perhaps) in North America that a 308 stoked with a 165 grain TSX cannot anchor with authority within the reasonable (250 meters) distance that the vast majority of North American big game is shot at?

Do the 338 Federal and 358 Winchester actually bring anything "extra to the party" now that monometal bullets, modern powders, etc. have increased the lethality of the 308?

I have a 243, 7mm-08, and 308. Have long considered adding either a 338 Federal or 358 Winchester to the "stable", but not sure that I'll see any "real life" advantages over my 308 shooting 165 grain Trophy Coppers.

Opinions and personal experiences welcome!

I don't have the 338 Federal or 375 H&H. However wouldn't the greater sectional density and size of a .338 or .375 give more hitting power than the .308?

 

[Suther]

I don't have the 338 Federal or 375 H&H. However wouldn't the greater sectional density and size of a .338 or .375 give more hitting power than the .308?

The difference between the 338fed and 308 is not a lot - one has a bigger diameter bullet than the other, thats about it. When I first heard about it, I thought the 338 federal was an amazing idea for a short-range bush rifle chambering, but the more I look back at it, the less it amuses me. You are going to give up penetration for a bigger hole, and its one of those situations where good bullet placement from either will result in the exact same thing - meat on the table. But really, anything from a .277 up through the .338 in a 308 sized case is going to have similar on-game performance. Some will shoot flatter, some will shoot heavier bullets, but they will all kill deer/moose/black bear no problem, as long as your range is suitable for the cartridge/game combination.

Now, the 375... Thats a whole other beast. Bigger, heavier bullets, going faster...

 

[Canadiankeeper]

No different than the old days. The .30-06 offers more of everything over the .308 (including recoil) just like it did in the old days. Same with the .300 WM over the 06.

I don't get why you think mono metal bullets have revolutionized the .308 Win? Does the .308 with a 165 grain TSX do anything more than a .308 with a 165 grain Partition? No. In fact the .308 never needed mono metal bullets as the velocity is quite tame. The real advantage of the mono metal bullets is they stay together with ultra high velocities.

Not saying they don't work in the .308, just that they don't do anything the .308 couldn't do before with a premium traditional bullet.

These discussions are quite asinine. No cartridge makes any other obsolete. They all bring something to the table and it is up to the shooter to weigh pros and cons and decide the best fit for himself.

^^ That

Had a 6.5, great target rifle. Barrel life is way shorter and components are harder to find. It slid in under the Ontario hunting regs so I used it for yotes...

If I could have one rifle to do it all, a nice 308 bolt gun. Target, long barrel life, take down any game in north America.

I'm all for the best you can get, especially when hunting. I don't think any of the yotes notice a difference from the 223. 55 grain hornandy to the 223. 55 grain AE. (I do on paper)

 

[p.Rundle]

No different than the old days. The .30-06 offers more of everything over the .308 (including recoil) just like it did in the old days. Same with the .300 WM over the 06.

I don't get why you think mono metal bullets have revolutionized the .308 Win? Does the .308 with a 165 grain TSX do anything more than a .308 with a 165 grain Partition? No. In fact the .308 never needed mono metal bullets as the velocity is quite tame. The real advantage of the mono metal bullets is they stay together with ultra high velocities.

Not saying they don't work in the .308, just that they don't do anything the .308 couldn't do before with a premium traditional bullet.

These discussions are quite asinine. No cartridge makes any other obsolete. They all bring something to the table and it is up to the shooter to weigh pros and cons and decide the best fit for himself.

I never said anything about mono metal bullets. I'm just saying, in general, that as technology improves older designs are phased out. I have a .303. Just bought it. And yes, it's less efficient than a .308, in many ways it's actually obsolete. Then again, I'm sure it'll still kill big game dead. But if it can be done in a smaller package (as .308 has been doing for a few decades) then the bigger, older, more powerful cartridge is out of date.

 

[Dogleg]

A 165 mono bullet like a TSX doesn't make a .308 "Bigger", it makes it "Deeper". Whether that is an advantage depends on whether you suppose the .308 had a penetration problem, or a bullet destroying problem in the first place. Its difficult to fix something that isn't broken.

The 168 TSX at 30-06 speed isn't much different than the same bullet or the 165 at .308 speed, and the differences are just a matter of being a few yards farther or closer to make things even up. It just happens to be a bullet that I have extensive experience with on population control culls in Australia. There isn't any question that it penetrates more than typical cup and core bullets, its more of a question of whether that is an advantage or not. The reality is that in most cases it isn't. When you trade a wide hole for a deep hole, you better make sure that you needed a deeper one because the narrower wounder channel of the deepest penetrating bullets works against you the rest of the time. We took out hundreds of animals per week, and believe me Barnes was used as a swear-word much of the time. Logistics being what they are, they ended up getting used up in the end but not happily. They ended up with a firm lock on last place.

Thick skinned game changes things around somewhat, but there's plenty of better bullets with the lead still in them for that too.

 

[Suther]

^^ That

Had a 6.5, great target rifle. Barrel life is way shorter and components are harder to find. It slid in under the Ontario hunting regs so I used it for yotes...

If I could have one rifle to do it all, a nice 308 bolt gun. Target, long barrel life, take down any game in north America.

I'm all for the best you can get, especially when hunting. I don't think any of the yotes notice a difference from the 223. 55 grain hornandy to the 223. 55 grain AE. (I do on paper)

Get a 270. Legal for small game in Ontario, will take any big game in NA (I would hunt anything but griz/polar bear with it personally)

 

[Boomer]

Get a 270. Legal for small game in Ontario, will take any big game in NA (I would hunt anything but griz/polar bear with it personally)

Get a .270 with a 1:8 twist and a box or two of .277/180 gr Woodleigh Weldcores and have at it. The big bears don't stand up to 180s at 2700 very well judging from the number taken with .30/06s over several generations. I think a .270 loaded with 160 gr Partitions would do as well, and the 160s perform in the more common 1:10s.

 

[Purple shoulder]

A 165 mono bullet like a TSX doesn't make a .308 "Bigger", it makes it "Deeper". Whether that is an advantage depends on whether you suppose the .308 had a penetration problem, or a bullet destroying problem in the first place. Its difficult to fix something that isn't broken.

The 168 TSX at 30-06 speed isn't much different than the same bullet or the 165 at .308 speed, and the differences are just a matter of being a few yards farther or closer to make things even up. It just happens to be a bullet that I have extensive experience with on population control culls in Australia. There isn't any question that it penetrates more than typical cup and core bullets, its more of a question of whether that is an advantage or not. The reality is that in most cases it isn't. When you trade a wide hole for a deep hole, you better make sure that you needed a deeper one because the narrower wounder channel of the deepest penetrating bullets works against you the rest of the time. We took out hundreds of animals per week, and believe me Barnes was used as a swear-word much of the time. Logistics being what they are, they ended up getting used up in the end but not happily. They ended up with a firm lock on last place.

Thick skinned game changes things around somewhat, but there's plenty of better bullets with the lead still in them for that too.

This confirms what I've always believed, but usually I get attacked for saying such things. Your experience with hundreds of kills puts your opinion in a more reputable place than most. Thank you.