Have you done Hot bluing?

sdeering

sdeering

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Hi all I'm contemplating using this hot bluing teck.
http://www.geocities.com/kemays/formula.htm

It looks like he is getting some great results.
I tryed a store bought cold blue out last night can't remember the name off hand. I'm going out to see how it turned out although I have my doubts.
I completly disassembled the guns 30-06+243 Parker Hail and gave them a good sanding in the lathe. Folowed the directions, but it seemed with every layer of black I applied it removed the prior layer. I put the developer on it. Going out to have a look this morning.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Stephen
 
sdeering said:
Hi all I'm contemplating using this hot bluing teck.
http://www.geocities.com/kemays/formula.htm

It looks like he is getting some great results.
I tryed a store bought cold blue out last night can't remember the name off hand. I'm going out to see how it turned out although I have my doubts.
I completly disassembled the guns 30-06+243 Parker Hail and gave them a good sanding in the lathe. Folowed the directions, but it seemed with every layer of black I applied it removed the prior layer. I put the developer on it. Going out to have a look this morning.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Stephen
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It looks like it would work.

I'll tell you up front - how good the blueing looks is all in the metal preparation. You do a crappy job in preparing it, that is how it will look when you are finished. What gunsmiths charge to do a reblue is mostly in the disassembly, cleaning and preparing the metal, and the cleaning, oiling and assembly after blueing. Once the solution is up to 285 degrees the blueing only takes 20 to 30 minutes. Check with a gunsmith close to you - he may offer a great price if you do all the prepartion and assembly - all he would do is blue the pieces.

The blueing thermometer isn't cheap either. The "tanks" you should use are plain steel. Not stainless, not coated with anything. You should have a cleaning tank, a cold water tank, a hot water tank and the blueing tank.

The chemicals are available but usually in large bags and the ratios don't work out. You will be out of one chemical and still have 85 pounds of another left over.

I have probably 100 pounds of Oakite (cleaning agent) left which will last me 40 more years if I was busy doing rebluing. I had to buy a barrel of it originally.

.
 
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A suggestion - if you use sodium nitrate instead of ammonium nitrate, you won't have to deal with the ammonia fumes.
You MAY have difficulty obtaining any nitrates. The Gov't. is moving to control the sale of these chemicals because of their utility in bomb making.
It is hard to do a first class job of rebluing a whole gun with cold blues. The hot water or rust bluing processes are easier to do without as much equipment as hot bluing. Hot bluing solution is nasty stuff, extremely hot and extremely caustic. You do not want to have an accident with it. You control the temperature by adding water to dilute the mix. Adding water that boils at 212 degrees to a bath that is boiling at 285 degrees is interesting.
As guntech recommended, see if you can find a 'smith set up for bluing who will give you a deal if you do all the prep.
 
Thanks guys. I like to think of my self as a doit youselfer. I have all the goods cnc mill lathe all of the fabricating stuff you can think of, the only thing I dont have is a lot of free time. Thats why I was thinking of the hot method. Once the gun is preped 20 min and your done. I will have to shop around to see if the chemicals are at hand.
Any Ideas where the fertilizer can be picked up?
 
sdeering said:
Thanks guys. I like to think of my self as a doit youselfer. I have all the goods cnc mill lathe all of the fabricating stuff you can think of, the only thing I dont have is a lot of free time.
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CNC hmmm?

I know your busy but what are the chances you could make me up a couple scope mount blocks like this in the next 6-8 months or so? They're aluminum.

HPIM0168.JPG
 
Metal Prep

S deering tell what grit of sanding did you take your rifles down to? Al though I've never done the blueing I have helped with alot of sanding and the most beautiful work was done in a sequence of 400 grit, all the way to 1200, then when the dipping started and finnished, the finnish of the steel was superb. Folks that wanted to spend far less on their guns merely had them bead blasted, then blued, ok but no where as nice as a high polish job. All of the sanding was done in a vise, and there was a good reason for that, which I don't quite recall, something about creating flat spots on the steel? Another thing that seemed critical was the direction that you sanded, from the chamber forward in one long stroke as you got into the finer grits. as I recall the metal prep took at least a couple of days per gun for a high polish job. Tough on the thumbs.
You will notice that the work is suspended by wire in the solution, and I don't see how its possible to do any long gun work in that tank set up on the link, unless you can get a deeper tank to use. There is fairly new product on the market now called BLUE Wonder, you may want to check it out as its far easier to use at home and from what I have seen at a demonstration the results were quite satisfactory.FS
 
As for the scope mount I need a drawing with all the dementions radius, length width ect. I will have to draft in CAD. I would have to buy a small cutter for that dovetail I got one but too big. After making one the next 100 would be easy the CAD and applying tool paths is the hard part. What is it worth?

As far as the sanding I did it in the lathe. I started out with some worn 200 grit then buffed with a felt on the bench grinder with rouge. The finish was comparable to stock. I did clean off the developer the 30-06 was ok. I didnt buff that one. THe 243 turned out very light it may have been the risidual rouge left on/in the steel.
The tanks I'v seen were a long trough with a burner under for the whole length.

Blue wonder is what I used.
Great replys people.
Thanks a bunch.
STephen
 
sdeering said:
As for the scope mount I need a drawing with all the dementions radius, length width ect. I will have to draft in CAD. I would have to buy a small cutter for that dovetail I got one but too big. After making one the next 100 would be easy the CAD and applying tool paths is the hard part. What is it worth?
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Instead of measuring everything up I'd most likely send you the mount.

As far as worth, thats entirely what you think a fair price to charge me is.;) :D
 
If you use this 'hot blue' you want to do it outside of anywhere there are tools, machines etc. The fumes will oxydize pretty much anything steel. I am speaking from experience. Mark
 
Yes, I totally understand the danger and corrosiveness of the procedure. Sorry to hear you got some rusting. Not something I would do inside.
How was the durability of the bluing you did.


Maddog I can't really give you a for sure on the mounts or a quote all I can suggest is mail them to me. I will measure them and draw up all the measurements and I will send them back to you of course at your expense.:)

I've got lots on my plate for this spring (straw bale shop 30x40). That will take up most of the rest of the year. :runaway:
Why do you want them made? For another gun or is one broken? Or just want some aluminum ones.
Stephen
 
sdeering said:
Why do you want them made? For another gun or is one broken? Or just want some aluminum ones.
Stephen
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Cause they aren't made anymore and I can't find them anywhere.

They're a one piece mount, your offer to measure and draw it up for me would be really handy though, I'll get ahold of you, thanks.
 
Blueing SUCKS ! All it is a controlled form of rust ! No #### ! It looks great but sucks for protection. It is twice as dangerous and hard to do as parkerizing. Parkerizing with Gunkote over it is better than stainless steel ! Take my advice as I have wasted alot of $$$ trying out different finishes to come up with the best.
 
i did some home bluing (really blacking) with a home brewed concoction, and a candy thermometer. Took a long time to get it up to temp, and it was closer to 300 degrees before anything happened. I am quite satisfied with the results, and it is a very durable finish.
Don't let anything aluminum near the tank. I tried to put small parts in with a screen I thought was steel. It turned out to be blackenned aluminum, and caused a major boil over that took the finish off a large portion of my deck at the cottage. Be prepared for boil overs. Adding even small quantities of chemical after the mix is hot can cause them.
 
Just a quick word of advice if you are buffing your components:

Most buffing agents in stick form use greasy binding agents to hold the abrasive together, and the paste stuff is no better. Even if the metal looks "clean" it will be doped with oily compounds from the buffing agent. You will have to thoroughly degrease it before bluing, or the bluing will not take properly. I use a solvent that is good on grease, like varasol, and then methyl hydrate or rubbing alcohol to remove any varasol.
 
Hot solution of TSP is a good degreaser. Rinse before bluing. Brownells sells non grease based buffing compounds, don't know if there is a Cdn. supplier. Must be someone. Buffing with grease based compounds applies the grease base very effectively, and as spi pointed out, it has to be removed completely.
 
sdeering said:
Thanks guys. If I actually do it, it will be outside with something under to catch a boilover if/when it happens.
John did you use lime and nitrogen fertilizer?
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Yes I did. Be prepared to answer some questions when you go and ask for a small quantity of non-urea amonium nitrate fertilizer.
YES. it does release great quantities of amonia fumes.
Plugging the barrel proved a problem, the expansion of the air inside will blow the plugs out. You need to come up with something more secure than simple corking.
My 44-40 has a partially blued barrel... inside. So far, I've not shot the bluing inside the barrel away near the muzzle. It's that tough. Doesn't seem to be a problem for accuracy.
 
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