Having different divisions for physical challenges - Help/advice needed

F

FraserGreen

Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
AB
Hi all

My club is hosting a 2 gun match soon and we are debating the physical challenge side of things. What this ultimately comes down to is that we don't want people hurting themselves but we do want them highly physically challenged.

We were thinking of splitting the competition into two physical groups to account for the fact that people are physically different. For example by having group A lifting a 30kg bag and group B a 20kg bag. Everyone will still be in the division (irons, optics, unlimited etc) and would be scored within their division.

This would then allow say a 60kg woman and a 50yr old man to compete where elsewise they might have hurt themselves or been unable to do the activity at all. We don't have the demographic to e a single standard and still get 100 shooters like say Desert Brutality or Finnish Brutality does.

The issue is we don't want everyone to assign themselves to the lower group so they can do things faster and more easily. All this would achieve is a shallow victory for them, but ultimately these people do exist.

Does anyone have any experience/ideas/thoughts on this?
 
In planning matches with my group, generally we have a division for ladies/young shooters/physically challenged, and one for everyone else. This will generally include lighter weights and shorter movement distances. Don't get me wrong, it's still hard on people, but there's enough honour and honesty that no able-bodied shooter willfully places themselves in the lower category unless they need to.

The way we run them, at the end of the day, 2-gun/ACM/Brutality matches are to be focused on self improvement and honing skills, so the idea is to keep a balance between challenge and competition without steering folks towards the gamer or need-to-win mindset. If a physically fit grown-@ss man shows up and tries to compete in the in the kids/ladies category... I'd be surprised if he survived the heckling that would ensue.
 
everybody is different

I can't do stuff that I could do in my 20's 30's or 40's

getting down or up from the ground can be a challenge ( flexibility issues)

But to be fair you almost need, if running reg matches, the best people compete as a group, the next people compete in there group, and so on

I used to shoot with a guy that was several years older than my self (compete against each other)one week he would win, the next I would win

the younger / better / faster would still beat us ...... but it was fun to challenge some one close to your ability, and fun to say I won this week
 
FraserGreen said:
Hi all

My club is hosting a 2 gun match soon and we are debating the physical challenge side of things. What this ultimately comes down to is that we don't want people hurting themselves but we do want them highly physically challenged.

We were thinking of splitting the competition into two physical groups to account for the fact that people are physically different. For example by having group A lifting a 30kg bag and group B a 20kg bag. Everyone will still be in the division (irons, optics, unlimited etc) and would be scored within their division.

This would then allow say a 60kg woman and a 50yr old man to compete where elsewise they might have hurt themselves or been unable to do the activity at all. We don't have the demographic to e a single standard and still get 100 shooters like say Desert Brutality or Finnish Brutality does.

The issue is we don't want everyone to assign themselves to the lower group so they can do things faster and more easily. All this would achieve is a shallow victory for them, but ultimately these people do exist.

Does anyone have any experience/ideas/thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

I believe you're over worrying about it.

Make sure whatever movement or task you have is do-able by all the participants. The timer, I assume you're doing timed scoring, will sort out the ability levels, both shooting and physical.

We have teenagers, guys in their 50's (me included), and lots of ladies. The shooters understand where they fit in with the other shooters with respect to results.

I'm one of the old guys, not particularly athletic, and I still finish well.
 
I’ve handled this sort of situation a few different ways.

For stages where shooters are required to get into a crouched or kneeling position, not everyone may be physically capable of that so I just let shooters know that they can choose to shoot standing but will incur a 5 second/target penalty.

I once had a stage that began with the shooter being suspended by their feet upside down - for that one, anyone who didn’t feel comfortable with that was welcome to start on their feet but they would be given a set time penalty.

Another winter match I had shooters wearing a weighted backpack for a stage and on the clock they had to retrieve their ammo from one of the 3 tables placed down range....shooters over the age of 60 got to use the closest table while shooters under the age of 30 had to use the furthest table and everyone else used the mid range table. This meant everyone had to run and it kept things reasonably fair. Though there was #####ing...but there’s always #####ing ;)

If I was the OP, I would consider going with the lighter weight but perhaps offer a time bonus for those shooters who carry double - that way each shooter gets to decide for themselves if it’s worth it or not.

I generally try to avoid making a bunch of different divisions and prefer to do a bit of handicapping on the rare stage that needs it.
 
Last edited:
The real hardcore fitness/shooting competitors are very few in number. The best ones do it for work, and don’t talk about it much. I become impatient with the guys who want to pretend they are SF, while not actually signing up. Design a match that seems too easy, with a broad range of requirements so expertise in 1 or 2 areas won’t be an automatic win. The #1 rule is make it fun, or you won’t get volume of participators, which is the only way to grow an event. If it had to be rough to interest a couple folks, add a simple separate task in stage, like stacking/flipping tires, or 20 pushups. Make them work like a dog. That’s the way it is in the real uniform game.
 
SomebodyTookMyName said:
Sounds like something a fat guy would say but whatever
Click to expand...

Nah, he just knows what he likes. For me, my favourite multigun stages are ones that are mostly about shooting proficiency but also involve other elements such as physical and mental challenges, unique presentations, etc. Some guys like a track meet, some guys just want to shoot. Most of us are somewhere in the middle.
 
SomebodyTookMyName said:
Sounds like something a fat guy would say but whatever
Click to expand...


Actually... the shooting comp/track meet advice came from one of the pros at one of the FNH 3-gun matches down at Peacmaker Training Centre... Can't recall which one it was who said it, but... we were standing around talking about the match and its various challenges... One of the Pro shooters made the point... and its valid. "Is this a shooting comp. Or a track meet?"

Sure... you can incorporate physicality into a stage, but... it should be measured carefully against the actual shooting aspect of the comp.

From a MD's perspective... keep things like divisions and classes as simple as possible... too many and it begets a ton of extra work...
 
I approve of your thoughtfulness. In the 90s SaskSport which gave lottery $$ to the provincial sport governing bodies, recreation and cultural groups. For a while they were on a Sport For All kick, and the idea was to make all funded sports as widely accessible as possible. In the target rifle discipline we were limited by the TR rule book, and that was something agreed internationally. F Class had not arrived, but allowances for time, classification and prize lists. At the same time, I was learning hunter education instruction. The similar societal encouragement was to make entry as easy as possible.

In your situation, I'd suggest if you want the competitors to run then shorten the distances for the evidently less capable. If you want them to carry a weight, give them a 10kg not a 30kg. If you want them to move through obstacles, maybe just give them doorways rather than ramps or barricades. Put the onus on the competitor to choose the challenges equal to their ability. If you have someone easily scampering through the B class route, let them finish, and let the match committee have a side conversation encouraging them to move to the A class or withdraw from the prize list.
 
Hi all

So I greatly appreciated the input you gave and came to the conclusion that we would:

1. Have two separate weight categories where possible
2. Having a group who are not competitors but can run through the stages without having to lift any weights etc.

This seems to tick all the boxes while maintaining maximum attendance
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom