So I Ive just started hand loading, and Ive only made about 100 or so .30-30s. Im using 150 gr RN rounds with 30gr of IMR 3031. Now my lee reloading data says that my maximal charge is only 30.5gr of 3031, giving me a pedestrian MV of just under 2200fps, although Ive been reading posts saying you can use as much as 33gr of 3031... Any ways according to the load data the min OAL of a .30-30 with 30.5gr of 3031 and a 150gr jacketed bullet is 2.550", in fact pretty much all the loads apparently require 2.550" or 2.540", which neither my Marlin 336 or Win 94 can accomodate. My '94 pushes the bullets back to 2.495-2.500 when I chamber them. So far I havent been getting any hard extractions or split casings so I think the pressure should be ok. Any comments from the more experienced guys?
Having issues with min OAL in my '94
- Thread starter Des.
- Start date
Do you mean max OAL?
All of my lee books only state "Max length" but not "min length"
I'm no expert but I load around 12 rifle cartridges in both black powder and smokeless. If you are loading close to or at max charges I'd be very carful loading bullets that are crowding the lead of the rifling. Doing do can cause spikes in pressure.
2200 fps is more then enough to stop most game sighing the useful range of the 30/30 cartridge.
All of my lee books only state "Max length" but not "min length"
I'm no expert but I load around 12 rifle cartridges in both black powder and smokeless. If you are loading close to or at max charges I'd be very carful loading bullets that are crowding the lead of the rifling. Doing do can cause spikes in pressure.
2200 fps is more then enough to stop most game sighing the useful range of the 30/30 cartridge.
ultimate_monkey
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- victoria BC
as long as your not getting pressure signs you should be fine the throats are just cut a bit short is all in your rifles. the OAL in books is only there as a " it "will" fit every firearm / magazine. here and there you get chambers that are shorter then spec odd that you have 2 rifles that are shorter then SAAMI spec
No, my lee data states 2.550 Max OAL for it to work in most actions, but it also states 2.550 as the MIN OAL when using maximal loads. I measured some factory remington ammo with 170gr rounds loaded to 2200fps and they were actually shorter out of the box than my handloads were after being chambered in my rifles and having the bullet seated back 0.050''. Is it possible the data is just out to lunch?
And I know 2200 fps with a 150gr RN is enough for most game, but Id like to atleast be able to duplicate factory loadings.
Don't think I've ever once used an OAL from a reloading manual.
With cannalure bullets I seat to the cannalure and crimp.
With non-cannalured bullets I seat at least 1 bullet diameter or the entire neck of the case (whichever is smaller) into the case and see what fits in the mag and feeds well. Adjust as necessary.
For match bullets I play around with the depth quite a bit and have gone as much as 1/2" longer than the published OAL.
All the bullets I have bought that have 2 cannalure rings only fit my chambers when seated to the deeper one so I've never had an issue with that.
You shouldn't be starting at max loads (I don't know if you are or not but it almost sounded like you where). Max pressure can be reached in one rifle before another. I've gone above max published loads before without pressure issues in rifles with generous chambers.
Published velocities can be drastically different from real velocities in your rifle. Only easy way to tell how fast the bullet is really going is with a chronograph.
If you want higher velocities with a given bullet weight, get a bigger gun. It's far safer to get a rifle with a more powerful cartridge than to try to hotrod a weaker one.
With cannalure bullets I seat to the cannalure and crimp.
With non-cannalured bullets I seat at least 1 bullet diameter or the entire neck of the case (whichever is smaller) into the case and see what fits in the mag and feeds well. Adjust as necessary.
For match bullets I play around with the depth quite a bit and have gone as much as 1/2" longer than the published OAL.
All the bullets I have bought that have 2 cannalure rings only fit my chambers when seated to the deeper one so I've never had an issue with that.
You shouldn't be starting at max loads (I don't know if you are or not but it almost sounded like you where). Max pressure can be reached in one rifle before another. I've gone above max published loads before without pressure issues in rifles with generous chambers.
Published velocities can be drastically different from real velocities in your rifle. Only easy way to tell how fast the bullet is really going is with a chronograph.
If you want higher velocities with a given bullet weight, get a bigger gun. It's far safer to get a rifle with a more powerful cartridge than to try to hotrod a weaker one.
Very well said/explained!!
I also load based on bullet shape, depth of the throat and intended use.
I don't ever approach the higher end of the charge scale. It's hard on the gun and my shoulder. Also I load for accuracy only (target shooter) I've found through extensive testing that 95% of the cartridges I load are most accurate at the lower end of the scale.
Something like a 30/30 will shoot well in the 1800 to 2000 fps range I should think and have more then enough thump to drop a deer etc. That's what I was getting at in my first post.
I find people are too focused on velocity now a days. Velocity is only important when you are shooting far which is not the entended perpose for the 30/30. If I say wanted to shoot at long distance and needed a faster cartridge I'd switch to a swede Mauser in 6.5x55 or a similar cartridge that I could load a spritzer bullet into to cut the wind better.
I seat most of my bullets to the lead -.010 to .005 for accuracy. But for something like a 30/30 in a levergun I'd load them light and to the cannular with a good crimp.
OP, if you aren't getting pressure signs then I'd say you're fine. Just keep in mind that an oldschool rimmed round like a 30/30 will never be a speed demon. But it has still taken thousands of moose and deer in the last 100 years so it's no lightweight!
Steve
Ive been reinspecting my brass and am definitely noticing now some slight cratering and the bolt face is being imprinted on the primer, so Im going to back down 10% and work my way up again in .5 grain increments I think. Also try out some different bullet/powder combinations and seating depths. Thanks for the info everyone.
I just thumbed through 5 loading manuals.
According to 2 of them you are a full 2 grains higher then their posted max charge. The other 3 you are at max and should be about 150 fps faster then the 2200 that you were after.
Just thought I'd let you know.
According to 2 of them you are a full 2 grains higher then their posted max charge. The other 3 you are at max and should be about 150 fps faster then the 2200 that you were after.
Just thought I'd let you know.
I have yet to see a 30-30 that will not safely digest 30.0 grains of IMR 3031 behind a 170 grain bullet, let alone a 150.
Ken Waters in his "Pet Loads" states that 32 grains is the max load, which supports the above statement.
Are you sure you are using 150 grain RN bullets specifically designed for the 30-30?
If not, the cannelure may be too far back on the bullet.
Normally, if you are using a bullet designed for the 30-30 in lever actions,
the cannelure is properly placed so that you do not get any contact with the lands if you crimp in the groove.
I would check my bullets first. The actions on the M94 will NOT accomodate a loaded round that is too long.[2.540" is about max in my rifles]
Regards, Dave.
Ken Waters in his "Pet Loads" states that 32 grains is the max load, which supports the above statement.
Are you sure you are using 150 grain RN bullets specifically designed for the 30-30?
If not, the cannelure may be too far back on the bullet.
Normally, if you are using a bullet designed for the 30-30 in lever actions,
the cannelure is properly placed so that you do not get any contact with the lands if you crimp in the groove.
I would check my bullets first. The actions on the M94 will NOT accomodate a loaded round that is too long.[2.540" is about max in my rifles]
Regards, Dave.
TargetAcquired
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
I load I think about 9 or 10 different projectiles in 30-30, its just a fun gun to load for. Factory jacketed hunting rounds to hard cast lead, I've not yet come across one that didn't have a cannelure in the right spot for good OAL. I have 15gn in both RN and spire, but both have a cannelure in the right spot - do yours not?
