Having to fit a bolt- whatre my chances?

45ACPKING said:
I install match barrels with short chambers frequently and in most but not all cases, have had good success combining a short chambered match barrel with the existing chinese bolt.
I'm not aware of any standard profile short chambered barrels availlable to us. Criterion is all that is availlable in that regard and I was under the impression these are chrome lined. Without a very specialized reamer, recutting a chrome lined chamber is not possible nor is it recommended.

Changing the barrel will absolutely affect headspace. What degree and which direction, there's no way to predict until you thread on the barrel.

So it's a tough one.
Staying with a chrome lined barrel, and wanting to tighten headspace, install a tighter fittting bolt and lap to final desired headspace.

Going with existing bolt, a short chamber barrel would be required and this is then finished reamed to final desired headspace.

Confused yet? :D
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1 part confused 2 parts enlighted. Sounds like Im better off going with a new bolt and getting it lapped for tigher headspace + best results with reloaded 308. Now if only we had someone in Canada who was available to do all this work. Man that guy would make a killing- hed be a fool to ever leave. :)

So that fulton gen2 bolt sounds like a good option just need to find someone with the know how
 
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45ACPKING said:
Based on the findings you've posted here, I would absolutely agree with you. Was that bolt at last summer's clinic in my backyard?
On that note, if I'm trial fitting say , used usgi bolts to a barrelled action (chinese, springfield, lrb), and the bolt I wanna use shows less than 1/4 engagement in the lugs.... I don't even think about lapping that bolt in.
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Yup, that was the bolt I had at your clinic last year. A well made specimen no doubt, but damn thing just not a good fit in the newer Norinco's. Finally sold it to a CGN'er who was doing a build with a re-barrel where he would have the opportunity to have the barrel reamed to allow proper fit for the bolt.
 
And that is unfortunately the gamble.
Spending a few hundred on a bolt that might not work for your rifle from the get go.
This why I used to be so fond of used usgi bolts. They almost always fit with reasonable lapping.
Sadly, these are now almost nonexistant. Haven't seen one in the ee in months.
Anyone got a 12-3 m14 to sell me hehehe
 
I wound up getting lucky with a couple of spare Norc bolts I picked up off the EE. I mixed and matched four bolts between two rifles until they headspaced at approximately 1.636 and 1.638, respectively (based on using an RCBS mic on fired brass - hence "approximately"). I sold the two I didn't wind up using for about what I paid for them, so in the end all I spent on it was a little time. If you're patient it might be worth trying that before springing for a Fulton.

If you do go this route be advised that Norc bolts and chambers can vary pretty widely and it's possible to mix and match some dangerous combinations. I used mic'd brass and feeler-gauges to check before firing, but using proper go/no-go and field reject gauges would be safer.
 
Brownells usually has them in stock. You could probably also get a local gunsmith to check them for a lot cheaper though (I'd suggest bringing them in with the bolts already disassembled).

edit: or just send some fired brass and a Tim's gift card to Hungry...
 
45ACPKING said:
I'm not a reloading expert by any means so will not try to give advice here. Guys like Oldsmobiler are full of solid user experienced info for reloading M14 ammo.

Headspace is not a measure of overall case length. It is the measurement from the bolt face to the datum line of the chamber.

For the average M1A/M14S owner/shooter, worrying to much about headspace can take you down a road of frustration. So many threads on this and even more "opinions" LOL
Bottom line, inspect your brass once in a while.
Watch for signs of pressure. Backed out primers, primer flow, pierced primers, bulging bottom 1/3 of case and so on.
Seeing any of these signs will tell you that a) you have crappy ammo, or b) your rifle's headspace needs a looking at.

As an m14 smith , I do caution folks with higher than 1.640 headspace to use quality .308 ammo and 7.62 nato spec ammo only.
I also suggest these folks inspect their .308 brass frequently.
But, it's yer ####, attach what value to it.... And my advice.... As you see fit ;)
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Thanks for the accolades Thomas :redface: I've reloaded for a few years :rolleyes: and have shot a couple rounds in the ol'14 and do like to help out when I can especially when it comes to reloading.

NOW...take this with a grain of salt. You can ask 10 different experts on reloading what they think and you will get 10 different answers. What I do recommend first is you get a good working knowledge on the rifle and how it works. Then when you start playing with reloading for the rifle you understand the terms and issues that may or may not come up. READ reloading manuals and ASK questions whenever you get a chance to talk to someone that knows what they are doing or have been there 1000 times! Don't ask and then not take his advice...that drives me nuts!

If you are reloading for the M14 here are a few things that I always tell guys to do:

1 - make sure you uniform the primer pocket. In my opinion this is the most important procedure you can do when reloading for the M14. Since it has the floating firing pin any deviation that will cause the primer to sit higher than normal will increase the chances of a slam fire or out of battery explosion - aka bad day! Now I'm sure there are going to be guys that will tell me "yeah, I never do that and I'm fine" hey thats awesome for you buddy...I like my face the way it is and all my fingers attached. You'd be surprised how much brass you get doing this operation.

2 - full length size your brass. Again I'll get some hate from this but I don't care. 90% of the guys out there don't have the skill yet to neck size and really if you want bolt gun accuracy get a bolt gun. Semi auto feeding rifles should not neck size. All this talk about match chambers (1.630") has got me confused as well. If you are planning on reloading for your stick you already have a match chamber. Take your fired brass from the rifle you are reloading for and set it up in your press. Back off the die quite a bit from its usual SAAMI setup (1.630) and size it. Take that piece of sized brass and load it in your rifle (stripped of course so you can manually feel the bolt closing on the brass - no oprod or spring, just the bolt). Make sure the extractor has a good hold on the rim as well. When you feel the bolt is completely closed on the brass with no resistance, turn the die a touch more so you get a few thou clearance in the chamber. Chamber size - 1.641, sized brass - 1.638 = .003 thou clearance. DONE! Try out that and see if it makes that much of a difference in your groupings. Basically what you are doing is bumping the shoulder back with a full length die.

3 - Like Thomas said, keep an eye out on your brass for bad things - case head separation, primer signs (pierced, flat, backing out, loose pockets, etc), cracked necks, odd bulges - if in doubt, toss it in the scrap pile! I've culled new brass for having loose pockets since that causes cratered bolt face from the jet of hot gas escaping out the back....that sucks!! The M14 is really tough on brass and I generally only reload my brass about 5 times before it goes in the scrap pile. Necks get hammered, the body gets dented to hell and the extractor rips the poop out the rim.

I can go on for pages but generally this is what I tell guys to start with.
 
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Oldsmobiler said:
2 - full length size your brass. Again I'll get some hate from this but I don't care. 90% of the guys out there don't have the skill yet to neck size and really if you want bolt gun accuracy get a bolt gun. Semi auto feeding rifles should not neck size. All this talk about match chambers (1.630") has got me confused as well. If you are planning on reloading for your stick you already have a match chamber. Take your fired brass from the rifle you are reloading for and set it up in your press. Back off the die quite a bit from its usual SAAMI setup (1.630) and size it. Take that piece of sized brass and load it in your rifle (stripped of course so you can manually feel the bolt closing on the brass - no oprod or spring, just the bolt). Make sure the extractor has a good hold on the rim as well. When you feel the bolt is completely closed on the brass with no resistance, turn the die a touch more so you get a few thou clearance in the chamber. Chamber size - 1.641, sized brass - 1.638 = .003 thou clearance. DONE! Try out that and see if it makes that much of a difference in your groupings. Basically what you are doing is bumping the shoulder back with a full length die.
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Haha the best part is how people think this is hard to do
 
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