Headspace issue or bad brass?

Question: If I use new brass with the false shoulder as described can I load those brass to my regular charge and use them to shoot groups or should I just use a light load to fireform them ?

Also should I false shoulder /fireform each brass or just a couple of them and set my die on those for the rest ?

Sorry for the questions but still learning some of these finer points about reloading.
 
powdergun said:
Question: If I use new brass with the false shoulder as described can I load those brass to my regular charge and use them to shoot groups or should I just use a light load to fireform them ?

Also should I false shoulder /fireform each brass or just a couple of them and set my die on those for the rest ?

Sorry for the questions but still learning some of these finer points about reloading.
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When changing to different brass there is a high probability that the case capacity will be different. Reduce your load and work back up.
Question. Were you using Nosler brass? It is very consistent but prone to early failure in my experience.
Once fire formed neck size only and your casing life will increase dramatically.
 
It was actually some win and some hornady brass. I only have about 40 rounds on the rifle and was using some used brass for break in but the gun shot so well I thought I would start load development with it. ( Hindsite I should of used new brass and broke in and fire formed at the same time)

My new brass is Hornady . None of my loads were outside of published info in the manuals. Top load was 69.0 gr of IMR4831 behind a 185gr berger. I did a ladder test and had very good results and wanted to test four of the loads. I guess I will test the same ones again but as you say I will always work on the side of caution.

There is so much to read about full length or neck size but I have a Redding neck sizer die as well as the full length but I think I will follow your advice with the neck sizing only after the first use.
 
powdergun said:
Question: If I use new brass with the false shoulder as described can I load those brass to my regular charge and use them to shoot groups or should I just use a light load to fireform them ?

Also should I false shoulder /fireform each brass or just a couple of them and set my die on those for the rest ?

Sorry for the questions but still learning some of these finer points about reloading.
Click to expand...

What you are trying to achieve is a "tight fit" of your brass in your chamber - from your bolt face to the shoulder in your chamber. No manufacturer anywhere will be able to precisely replicate your dimensions - all is done to plus or minus tolerances, not absolute sizing. So, if you want that exact fit, you need to do the re-sizing thing with each of your brass. And you wipe out all that work, if you just "normally" re-size hard onto the shell holder the next time.

So, for range use, on paper targets, most people appear to be satisfied with a bit of pressure to close the bolt - a tight fit of brass to chamber. Most hunters, like me, do not want that - as most of us have missed occasionally, we want a very quick re-chamber for a second go at it - that often means we do NOT want any resistance on the bolt closing, even if that means some degree of loss of exact precision - which might be actually "real" or not depending on your abilities and the rifle's abilities. In my experience, my "best shot" is the first one - after that, I am behind and trying to catch up - game is likely moving, more difficult to hit, I am getting frustrated and so on. All that stuff takes away from "precision".

So one way to do this is to go through the fitting part until you get the die creating the false shoulder exactly where the bolt closes with "some" closing pressure. Now take a feeler gauge or whatever, and figure out what clearance existed between your shell holder and the bottom of your die, at exactly that point. Write that down somewhere - chances are good that is where you want to be able to reset that die in the future, for the next reloads. Might want to add a thou or two to that number to make "hunting loads" - will get you not much or no bolt closing pressure. In my experience, a concern about brass longevity is a target shooting thing - I doubt 50% of the brass that I have fired at game was ever looked for - just not important at the time. Of course, one shot fired and game down before cycling bolt - I do put that shell casing in my pocket!!!

I hunted white tail and mule deer with Ruger #1 in 7x57 for about 20 years. Basking in 12 or 13 "one shot" kills in a row. Then, between previous evening's Jack Daniels and other factors, a memorable mule deer buck took 9 or 10 rounds fired by me before he quit - I think, over the course of several hours, I hit him twice - first shot, and last shot. So, quite a pile of brass from the first run of "hunting brass" - I think I only have the last one fired from that mule deer...
 
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I will also be the contrarian, and recommend full length sizing, for hunting - some on this board have a ton of experience on range and target shooting and give good advice for that. For hunting, I suspect 90% or more of my shots have been unsupported offhand - I can generally hit clay pigeons on the backstop on the 100 yard range, so be generous and credit me with 4 MOA capability with my hunting rifle, loads, scope and ability. So I really am not prepared for the fussing involved in getting from .6 MOA groups to .4 MOA groups. For what I want the rifle and me to do, I have been more than happy with 2 MOA or better off a rest, since I started hand loading about 1975 or so. I do not intend to win matches, but I can look across a field or slough, and I know, for sure, when I can place a bullet on that elk or deer, and, probably as importantly, I also know when I can not be sure.
So, I normally full length size. For "special occasions", I have been known to partially full length size on brass previously fired in that rifle. Works okay for what I need.
 
Potashminer has posted some excellent advice. Worth reading more than once.

For hunting or serious target competition, I want each and every cartridge to chamber without hesitation. I don't want a round that won't seat or gets jammed in the chamber. Full length sized, or close to it.
For recreation and practice, careful prep and minimal sizing will prolong case life. That is probably where most ammunition is expended.
 
So got hold of something to expand the neck to .338 and followed your instructions. Boy did that work fast and easy to get a false shoulder where I can close the bolt with a little extra pressure. So now all that is left to do is load up some more ammo and back to the range for that elusive perfect load.

Thanks again for the help.
 
The fact that you have a noticeable "false shoulder" to get some closing pressure on your bolt is telling you that your chamber is longer than your sizing die. You are on the correct track! Good Luck!
 
would these rounds loaded with the false shoulder provide reliable results in a load test or is it better to test after they have been fireformed ?
 
I am sure some people will say yes and some will say no. I would have no hesitation to do a pressure series work up as my "fire-forming" loads. Then come back with the "best" load and fire from the fire-formed case. Make sure that you check case length and trim if necessary. None of us can know how much of a change you are making - really up to you to tell us which worked better or if there was a difference at all, with your set-up. Your results may or may not apply to anything that I have here.

You are working with a 300 Win Mag, I believe? Some do use such a thing for long range targets, but I suspect that you are building up a hunting load? If so, then using hunting bullets, not match bullets? Might be tempting to use cheaper bullets for a "fire-forming" load, then do experimenting with the more expensive hunting bullets in the fire-formed cases? But, up to you, I think. Fire forming loads may end up matching "close enough" for what you want??
 
I have always had excellent accuracy fire forming various AI cartridges ... test away right from the get go...
 
Kind of two birds one stone. I am using Berger hunting bullets and have a good supply. I got the rifle for really just targets and learning on. ( I know 300wm is a bit much) but I wanted something that had the horsepower to hunt with on the slim chance I get time to go this year plus I have been shooting either a 300wm or similar since I was a teenager. The case seperation is new to me so I was a bit thrown. I have a few rounds loaded up with the shoulders and new brass and weather permitting I will shoot a couple of 5 shot groups on the weekend and see what it tells me. Then play around with my coyote rifle for a while.

The one load I used on the last outing gave me a .6 MOA at 300 yards and for me that is great. I have a feeling that getting better than that will require a better shooter and not a better load ? My end goal is to hit clay pigeons at 500 yards. If I can do that with reasonable consistence I will probably have another one built and do it all over again.

Note: I determine group size by measuring the longest hole to hole distance subtracting the caliber and dividing by the length of a minute at range ( used 3" for 300 yards ).
 
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