Hellllp!! Black soot on my pistol cartridges????

8675-30-9

8675-30-9

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Anyones help will be greatly appreciated.

I am loading 9mm & 45 ACP. I am using both Blue Dot & W231 powders for both. and with each of these combinations I am getting deadly accuracy, but I can't stand the BLACK SOOT bulding up inside my guns, not to mention the amount of soot on the outside of my cases.

I have completed everything methodically as far as excellent reloading practices. Tumble, clean primer pocket, brush inside cases, carbide size, chamfer case size, CCI prime, ensure my case length is consistent ~.0005" less than maximum allowable tolerance, powder charge, then seat a bullet (snug to tightly as I cannot budge with my bare hands), and I cannot get rid of this soot!!!!! It's gumming up my semi's in a bad way after 6 or 7 mag fulls!

Loads I have tried:
.45 ACP - 230gr LRN - 7.5, 8 & 8.5 gr Blue Dot
.45 ACP - 230gr CMJ - 4.2, 4.6 & 5.1 gr W231
9mm - 115gr CMJ - 3.5, 3.7 & 3.9 gr W231 - (Already seeing signs of extruded primer surfaces at the 3.7gr level ???)

Is my brass expansion he problem? Do I chance going higher then recommended loads? Help is greatly appreciated at this point.....
:runaway:
 
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Can't speak to the W231, but Bluedot in 45 was a disaster for me too. About a 15-20 foot trail of unburnt powder in front of my shooting position (shooting in fresh snow tells you things sometimes ;)). I stopped using Bluedot, because of that, and it also made the gun really dirty. I'm not sure if it was the powder or the cheapo excel SWC plated bullets, but the rounds wouldn't cycle my Glock more than half the time. That plus the excessive amount of powder required with Bluedot, I stopped using it.
 
Combustion will leave powder residue, that's pretty much inevitable. Is it just that you find it unpleasant, or is actually preventing your gun from functioning after only 6 or 7 mags?

I would also add that pistol brass doesn't expand, or grow, like rifle brass does.
 
I have used W231 almost exclusively in my 9mm's and 40's. Never had the gumming issue you mentioned. Are you taper crimping after seating the bullets? A light to medium taper crimp may help with gripping the bullet in the case to let more of the powder burn on ignition. If your getting extruded primer signs at that light a charge, double check to make sure their seated all the way in the pocket and slighly below flush. I know when I use CCI primers they require a little extra to get em seated versus a Federal or Winchester. Good luck.
 
The soot is so bad in BOTH powders that I can only make it through about 6 o7 mags before my gun stops operating properly. I'm shooting a 1911 with the .45 ACP although the 9mm does not stop operating it still gums up too much and too fast.

The toughest thing I find about this guys is that a factory load is so damn clean, and there are no issues whatsoever! I took up reloading to think that I could produce something better than factory, and accuracy wise I deffinitely am, but the powder residue is overwhelming and quite frankly it's starting to get to me!

As for CCI Small Primers I will double check my seating.

I am not taper crimping because because my cases are tight already. I will need to try this for sure if this will save my situation. If all else fails, maybe a different powder then like the vv N320???

Shooting Blue Dot in snow, I agree is interesting. I struggled with this too, but I think the powder is burnt or I would have no ignition. I just don't think it fully vapourizes the carbon.

Thanks everyone, I will report back for sure, because I know there are many people that are having these same issues as well as I have 3 other pals that have been reloading longer than me and are still experiencing this soot. If there is any more feedback from anyone else, I am still interested to hear.....


Cerdan said:
Combustion will leave powder residue, that's pretty much inevitable. Is it just that you find it unpleasant, or is actually preventing your gun from functioning after only 6 or 7 mags?

I would also add that pistol brass doesn't expand, or grow, like rifle brass does.
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I had a very similar problem using W231 in both 45ACP & 9MM.
After 50 rounds my 45 was filthy.

I switched over to another powder that burns much cleaner & the problem is solved.
 
8675-30-9 said:
but I think the powder is burnt or I would have no ignition. I just don't think it fully vapourizes the carbon.
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Powders generally don't burn completely. The stuff that comes out the end (and a cylinder gap in a revolver ) is called "ejecta". It's some combustion products (eg., carbon), lead, brass, and some just unburned powder - which is why tossing a match into range sweepings can be exciting.

Blue Dot is dirty, period. Can't say about 231, but as mentioned 45acp is low pressure and gives somewhat incomplete ignition.

Universal Clays is the cleanest powder I've tried - leaves next to no junk behind even in .45acp. Titegroup has very low ejecta and is quite versatile, although you'll still have a stain on the brass. I've avoided VV powders because of cost and availability.
 
W231 is the dirtiest of the dirty powders, there is nothing that is worse. I could shoot 3 mags full of .45 acp and swear that I had been shooting all day by the mess it made.

In my Gold Cup I had very similar results as yours, about 8 mags and I would have to clean the rails and the slide off and re oil to keep it functioning for another 10 mags. On a loose goose Norc .45 I could shoot all day as long as I put a few drops of oil on the slide to keep it going.

Once I ran out of the W231 I never bought any again. Hands were absolutely filthy and the pistols were worse and the clean up was horrible, swear you were shooting a black powder revolver.

I have had good luck with Bullseye in my autos and nothing beats it in my .38's. Haven't tried VV N320 , I have so much other powder stock piled it will be a while before I try something new.
 
When i was shooting IPSIC I used 231 in my reloads with mostly lead and sometimes jacketed projectiles, I cleaned after every session , usually 200 rounds or so,the hardest part of cleaning was removing lead from the barrel. Powder residue wasnt a problem with my 45. Mind you I was using major loads and as previously mentioned crimping just enough to not feel the transition between case and projectile which made for reliable feeding.
 
"...not taper crimping because because my cases are tight already..." That's not why you taper crimp. Taper crimping aides feeding.
You're going to get carbon with any powder, but change powders.
 
I use bullseye for .45 and I have been told it is a dirty powder, however it is fast burning so it works well for me. I do get a dirty gun sometimes, and there is some smoke but never to the point that it causes my gun to fail. Are you sure it is not unburned powder clogging up the chamber, not just soot. Try a faster burning powder.
 
I find Unique powder to be the cleanest in my 9mm shooting cast bullets. I tried Tite Group in it first, it worked well but I get better accuracy with unique and unique seems to be a little cleaner. I usually clean after 500 to 750 rnds wether it needs it or not.

I REALLY like Tite Group in my .45's. Again I am loading mainly cast bullets.... I am also very lazy cleaning them as well, usually after 500 to 750 rnds, or longer.

I tried a little test last winter. I wnated to see how long I could go without cleaning my pistols before they stopped working...... 1400 rnds in my 1911 Norc (I just couldn't do that to my Colt or STI) and 1750 in my M&P 9mm.... In my M&P it didn't actually stop working.... it just got so dirty I couldn't look at it anymore......

I short I have to say Unique and Tite Group are 'cleaner' burning powders..... Or my guns have a lot of clearance!

Cheers!
 
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