Hello from Northern BC and questions (long post)

E

Elwood Blues

New member
So hello all,

I think it goes without saying that I am a newbie to most of this stuff so hopefully I don't get all out flamed on this forum.

Anyway a little about myself as the forum suggests...

I am living in Northern BC and have for about 4-5 years now. I am a transplanted Calgaryian here- born and raised being told that the only purpose of guns was murdering, killing, and only those up to no good would own one. However, after moving to the north I found a very different mentality- most people I ran into who had lived here for a while were quite okay with them being in the main population. They didn’t seem too panicky when someone mentioned that they had bought a new rifle, or whatnot, in public conversation and everyone DIDN’T start frothing at the mouth and talking about banning all guns.

Later I did some work for a couple of friends of mine and they couldn’t really afford to pay me in money, but they gave me a big Sears bag of wild game (various ground wild game, elk steaks, and deer….something). Anyway I researched the proper cooking temperatures and so forth and initially tried ground bear (?) in a tomato based meat sauce. I went this way as I was told the wild meat is very gamey (?), not beef like, and I just wouldn’t like it. I have to say that it turned out really quite good with some different seasonings. Later that month I grilled some moose steaks out of the Sears bag, and man were they good!! Stewed deer? Yup good as well! Moose liver- quite tasty! So anyway I started looking into hunting, but midterms came along and that took over life as they tend to do.

Fast forward to this last month when we had a bear around the area that I live where there are also a lot of children. We tried scaring it away but it just kept coming back and making a nuisance of everything and started to be more and more investigative in daylight around people. So one afternoon, one of the local dogs treed it after a short chase and someone remarked that there should be something done about it. Another one of the guys remarked that he had a bear tag and trotted off to get his rifle. Came back, got everyone one the right side of the muzzle, lined up, shot the bear in the head, and down with a thump it came. No fanfare, depressing theme music, or wives coming out of house angry about ‘a gun in our community’. The bear wasn’t going away and was dealt with humanely and safely. Great. Upon thinking of this later I thought that this might not be a bad skill to have to obtain meat, keep a property safe for kids etc., and develop better eye hand coordination.

So here I am eager to learn about the responsible use of firearms and seeing how school is done (for the time being) I actually have some time I could devote to learning a new skill.

So here’s what I am thinking. I know I have to get my PAL-R and CORE, but in the meantime I figure I can learn about all this so when all the paperwork is done and red tape cut- I can just get on with it.

So my thoughts:
-I see on the forums that a Springfield M1A is a popular firearm to own and I have always liked the look of it. Also from what I have read (please let me know if I have got anything wrong) some of the pros to this firearm are:
-Wide ownership circles in Canada (support when something goes wrong- hopefully I am in a position to still ask questions then)
-Wide aftermarket support
-Common cartridge
-Highly accurate right out of the box
-Reliability and durability even in less than ideal conditions
-Excellent service record (US military, marksmen teams military and civilian, etc.)
-Variety of models to choose from depending on application
-Semi-automatic for quick follow-up shots and not having to fight with a bolt on the wrong side of the receiver (left handed, left eye dominate)
-2 stage trigger
-Carbine length for easy maneuvering in the bush and possibly fired from horseback (ranch style rifle?)
-Flat trajectory
-I’m looking for a rifle that will be dependable, predictable, and very versatile. I have my sights set on the M1A SOCOM II. I would be like to be able to go moose hunting on the long weekend with friends and then later in the week put a bipod on the lower rail, put some match ammo in the mag, and shoot targets at a range.

-Couple things that I am not clear on is barrel length related to accuracy. I have been told that a shorter barrel is more accurate as it has less barrel vibration as the round exits the rifle, but many marksman rifles (H & K PSG-1, CheyTac M200, Barrett .50) have very long barrels- so a little confused on that issue.
-Also I have been told that the knock down power of the .308 Win is pretty weak beyond 400 yards. Any thoughts from the community?
-Are holographic sights any good for hunting or range use? Parallax free, non-reflective, and low profile.
-I’m not really opposed to saving up for a year or so to get the firearm, optics, and case. Besides, it sounds like that’s the amount of time it takes for the government to get its act in gear once everything is signed.

Whew! That’s a lost post but, I figured I would just take care of it all at once. If I have to repost sections of this message/PM other community members- so be it.

Please don’t flame me!

EB
 
Where in northern BC are you from? There could be other Gun Nutz in the area that would be happy to meet up with you at the range.
 
Great first post. Welcome!

You have done what all smart beginners should do; a lot of research, and have asked a lot of very good questions

The M14 type rifle is an excellent choice here in Canada. It is, foremost, a RIFLE, firing a full powered cartridge, and is capable of taking any large game in North America. (excepting Polar Bears.)

It is non-restricted, (you can carry and fire it outside of formal ranges), and although other similar rifles (which have been legislated into oblivion) might be my personal preference, the M1A type has been tweaked enough over time to be a reliable design.

It is accurate in a practical sense. With quality ammunition and sights it shoots more precisely and accurately than just about any of us.

Short, thin barrels do not give up anything in accuracy for a single shot or two.Longer barrels maximize velocity, as the bullet only accelerates while inside the barrel. Long barrels mean longer time accelerating. Heavy barrels slow the rate at which the barrel heats up over a series of shots, thereby delaying the inevitable deviations and loss of accuracy. BUT for the first shot or two, usually what the individual civil rifleman fires, the trade off in handiness is worth more than the additional benefit of weight and length.

Frankly, all the individual Rifleman needs is a short, light bolt action rifle with a smooth action, great trigger, a good sling, bipod and a mounted weapon light. But most of us want something else. Given the current laws, the M14 type is a great choice.

The Springfield M1A SOCOM is a good choice for a new M14 owner. Out of the box it is 99% of what anyone could want.

For less money, the compulsive tinkerer could buy a Norinco rifle and have it heavily modified by any of several members here on the board, into a rifle that meets ALL his needs, real and perceived. Lots of after market goodies for them.

.308 is fine out to as far as you will want to kill anything. Really. I used to shoot professionally, and I usually limit myself to 300m shots on game. People much further. Magnums have a slight theoretical edge, but a more difficult to shoot accurately, cost more and burn up barrels faster, etc.

Optics; Scout mount on the M1A is great. Batteries fail, so irons must be available as a back up. XS sights Big Dot gives 24/7 capability. So what glass?

#1 choice is expensive. Schmidt & Bender Short Dot.

#2 choice is good too. Mid-priced 1.5 - 4.5 power extended eye relief scope with illuminated reticle / dot. Leupold, Bushnell, Burris, blah blah blah...

#3 choice would be a red dot holographic sight. These are slightly faster up close, say to 100 meters, but lack the advantage to magnify at longer, deliberate shots. I have an extremely small red dot sight mounted at 2 o'clock atop my regular scope, but that was for work.

Take my thoughts for what they are worth, and continue to ask questions.

I will copy this post over to the Battle Rifle Forum as well.

Yours in Shooting,

Ben

P.S. Grew up in tha neck of the woods. Still miss it.
 
A Socom II is totally unsuitable for what you want. Socoms are restricted because of barrel length. The are treated like handguns under the law, range use only. No hunting, no plinking in the bush. You'd need to get something with a minimum 18.5" barrel for a centerfire semi auto for hunting. The Norincos work well chopped to that length.
 
One of my firsts was a M14 and I really liked it. Ammo doesn't cost a bunch and you can pick up a used one with a fiberglass stock already one it for a good price. Its a fun gun for the range but what I felt about it was that it is to heavy for carrying out in the bush. If you are planning on hunting a nice light bolt action or a lever action might be better suited. In my unprofessional opinion you should go out and buy at least one of each that way you can see what you like best of fun shooting and hunting. The more guns the better:D
 
EB here,


Thanks so much for the responses all so fast.

So the SOCOM II is restricted which means that I cannot go hunting with it as per this thread. So what if I got a Loaded M1A with a stainless/synthetic setup, and bought an extended cluster rail assembly, and swapped out the flash suppressor for a muzzle brake? From your collective experience would that work as a hunting/range rifle that would be non-restricted? Would it be worth cutting the barrel down to the 18.5” mark or would that involve way to much work re-tuning the gas system, modifying the forestock, and changing the orbit, of say, Neptune?

Also any thoughts on an EOTech .308 compensated holographic sight with a 4x flip-to-side magnifier? Or should I just stick with a standard style scope like most hunterish types I see? Does that have enough magnification to make longer shots in the bush and on the range?

Now from reading this forum and other websites this next question is a big one.

Recommendations for a load to hunt moose/deer with and a load to use on the range.

Thanks for all your time and patience.

EB
 
IMHO, unless you've got a printing press for money in your basement, the loaded Springfield's prolly a lot more than you mneed. Also bear in mind you can build a Norinco to all those specs for less than the price of the std. M1A.
Go to the M14 forums and see what guys are saying about the quality of the Norincos VS Springfields.
 
Chuckled all the way through your post. As an ex- Montrealer and a former anti handgun, I experienced similar revelations when I moved north and had to deal with bears checking me out while working in my garden. Welcome to the clan of the-wiser-for-the-move-north.
 
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