Help: 9 mm Bulgy Loads - Lee Single Stage Press

jrossi90

jrossi90

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Hello All,
I could use a little help.
I'm relatively new to the reloading scene. I am reloading 9 mm luger on a Lee single stage press with the deluxe carbide die set. I am experiencing a slight bulge at the base of my completed cartridge which is causing the shell to get jammed and not want to extract out of my SP01 Shadow. After some reading, I believe this bulge is due to the fact that the shell holder stops the resizing die 1/8" above the rim of the cartridge.

A couple solutions I have seen:

1 - Slight bore of the barrel
2 - Push-through resizing dies (Can't find any for 9 mm, though).

I would like to differ to you experts out there. Have you experienced this problem? What is the best way to solve this issue?

Thanks!!
 
Johnny_Zanni said:
Are you using the Factory Crimp Die? It will size the case as you crimp the bullet in.
Click to expand...

I am using the 9 mm Factory Crimp Die, but it does not get all the way to the base of the cartridge due to the shell holder. This leave a tiny bulge at the base of the cartridge which is causing some extraction issues with my SP01. I think that this is a somewhat common issue.
 
I had this problem a couple of weeks ago. Using a RCBS die . I didn't have the die low enough, when I lowered the die to almost kiss the shell holder it got corrected.
 
Its not extracting after you fire it, or are you trying to cycle the action by hand?
If its cambering and firing than its resized properly.
If you can't cycle it by hand. I would check to see if your bullets are seated deep enough.
Some bullets need to be seated deeper or they will engage the rifling.
 
Brianma65 said:
I had this problem a couple of weeks ago. Using a RCBS die . I didn't have the die low enough, when I lowered the die to almost kiss the shell holder it got corrected.
Click to expand...
Thanks. If I remember correctly, I have the factory crimp die pretty low but I will double check

Hookturn said:
Its not extracting after you fire it, or are you trying to cycle the action by hand?
Click to expand...
I am cycling by hand. The cartridge will barely chamber then I need to disassemble the slide and extract because it gets jammed up pretty good.
 
I'd check the seating depth of the bullet. My shadow likes the overall length to be between 1.050 and 1.080. Longer then the bullet hits the rifling and will not chamber. I'd take the barrel out and test fit the completed rounds. I kept seating the bullet deeper in. 005 steps until it finally seated then added. 005 enter a seating depth. Once you know your target length then you should be good to go for that bullet/ barrel combo.
 
jrossi90 said:
Thanks. If I remember correctly, I have the factory crimp die pretty low but I will double check


I am cycling by hand. The cartridge will barely chamber then I need to disassemble the slide and extract because it gets jammed up pretty good.
Click to expand...
I used a cleaning rod to tap the stuck case out.
 
jrossi90 said:
Thanks. If I remember correctly, I have the factory crimp die pretty low but I will double check


I am cycling by hand. The cartridge will barely chamber then I need to disassemble the slide and extract because it gets jammed up pretty good.
Click to expand...
I used a cleaning rod to tap the stuck case out.
 
jrossi90 said:
Hello All,
I could use a little help.
I'm relatively new to the reloading scene. I am reloading 9 mm luger on a Lee single stage press with the deluxe carbide die set. I am experiencing a slight bulge at the base of my completed cartridge which is causing the shell to get jammed and not want to extract out of my SP01 Shadow. After some reading, I believe this bulge is due to the fact that the shell holder stops the resizing die 1/8" above the rim of the cartridge.

A couple solutions I have seen:

1 - Slight bore of the barrel
2 - Push-through resizing dies (Can't find any for 9 mm, though).

I would like to differ to you experts out there. Have you experienced this problem? What is the best way to solve this issue?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...

A slight bulge in the base of resized cases is normal. However, if it's the base of the shell that is causing the problem you probably don't have your sizing die set deep enough so you're not fully resizing the case. Lee recommends raising the ram to maximum height, screwing in the sizing die till it firmly contacts the shell holder, then lowering the ram and screwing in the die an additional 1/4 turn before setting the lock ring. I have found an 1/8th inch usually will do the trick, however. That will give you a properly sized case. Remember that the head of the case is solid so you really can't compress it any more.

Push through dies (e.g. Lee Bulge Buster) are available for straight wall cases like 40 S&W and 45 ACP but not for 9mm because it is a tapered case.

Not really sure what you mean by "Slight bore of the barrel".
 
Rickster66 said:
I'd check the seating depth of the bullet. My shadow likes the overall length to be between 1.050 and 1.080. Longer then the bullet hits the rifling and will not chamber.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I'm currently loading at 28.50 mm COA. I'll investigate this further.

ted_dent said:
Lee recommends raising the ram to maximum height, screwing in the sizing die till it firmly contacts the shell holder, then lowering the ram and screwing in the die an additional 1/4 turn before setting the lock ring. I have found an 1/8th inch usually will do the trick, however. Not really sure what you mean by "Slight bore of the barrel".
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. I did not know this. I will try this out when I get a chance.

To clarify, I know some IPSC shooters who have this same issue and have bored out the base of their barrel slightly to help accommodate and seat the bulgy cartridge.
 
I use this:

http://leeprecision.com/carbide-die-only-9mm-lug.html

Just make sure when decapping/resizing, the casing goes in completely to a point the case holder touches the base of the die. Bulging is generally caused by an un-supported chamber including an over-charged cartridge and an improperly resized casing. I have not experienced this on both my 85C and SP01 Shadowline. I also use range brass but have seen a similar issue from some range brass from other shooters.
 
By screwing your die an extra 1/8 inche , you'll have a cam over , which is recommended for rifle cases, not pistol. That's how it works with my RCBS died anyway. Just kiss the die to the shell holder( no cam over). Then try the case in your barrel chamber. It should drop in freely ,with a plunking noise and come back out easily. You can make a dummy rnd ( no powder and primer) and try it in your barrel.
 
grumpyold said:
Recheck your die adjustment.
Click to expand...

Brianma65 said:
By screwing your die an extra 1/8 inche , you'll have an cam over , which is recommended for rifle cases, not pistol. That's how it works with my RCBS died anyway. Just kiss the die to the shell holder( no cam over). Then try the case in your barrel chamber. It should drop in freely ,with a plunking noise and come back out easily.
Click to expand...

Thank you, guys. I will give that a try.
 
What bullet, what weight? I would be prone to think seating depth over case bulge, especially if you are using a FCD. I've loaded upwards of 15,000 rounds on my Lee Pro 1000 using Lee dies and finishing with a FCD. Never had a feed issue due to case size.

1.122 can be long in a CZ chamber.
Until I started using Campro's, I used 1.100 with AIMs and Frontiers.
 
Just to clarify a couple of red flags I noticed.

The factory taper crimp die does not get pushed fully to the shell plate. Instead you adjust the height to obtain the right amount of crimp. And the right amount is to just remove the flare or to very lightly pinch it into the side of the bullet. If you set it to push all the way down you'll swage the bullet to a far too small a size.

I've read about some folks grinding away some of the bell mouth on the nose of the sizing die to aid in getting a more full length of crimp. The downside is that the cases need to be placed with a little more care since they won't move into the mouth of the die from as far out of alignment.

I believe someone mentioned trying the cases after sizing to see if they plunk fully into the chamber. If they do then it's not a bulge at the head but the seating depth of the bullet. Been there and had the stuck rounds to show for it. CZ's have short chamber leade angles which stick against the bullet noses if the rounds are too long. Depending on the bullet weight and profile I've been able to load to 1.08 to 1.13 without this happening. But by most 9mm standards this is considered short. But it's what we have to use to chamber the rounds in our CZ's.

I would examine a lot of other options before I take any tools to the chamber. That would be a truly final last resort. Before I did that I'd check to see if your chamber is out of spec for some reason. I've seen a LOT of CZ's around here and no one I know of has had to resort to such a thing. All the cases of slides locking out of battery locally I've seen were due to improper bullet seating depth and the resulting OAL issues. 147gn TC shaped bullets seem to be the worst for this and require a short OAL to chamber correctly.

What it with those. In the small case volumes this creates small differences in the powder amount produce larger changes in pressure and velocity. If seating long and heavy bullets this deep approach the peak loads with care and with the use of a chrono or you could end up going well over the SAMMI pressure spec.
 
Brianma65 said:
By screwing your die an extra 1/8 inche , you'll have a cam over , which is recommended for rifle cases, not pistol. That's how it works with my RCBS died anyway. Just kiss the die to the shell holder( no cam over). Then try the case in your barrel chamber. It should drop in freely ,with a plunking noise and come back out easily. You can make a dummy rnd ( no powder and primer) and try it in your barrel.
Click to expand...

Lee single stage presses don't cam over, at least not the one I have. I'm told that the reason you won't find a push-thru die like for the 40SW and 45ACP is because the 9mm case is slightly tapered.

Load a empty case into the shell holder and raise the ram all the way to the top. While holding it position, look from the side of the press and see if you can notice any daylight between the top of the shell plate and bottom of the die. If you can see daylight, lower the ram and tighten the die a 1/8-1/4 turn and repeat until the shell plate and die are kissing.

If you have a factory crimp die, back off the crimp knob all the way, repeat the steps above so that the die and shell plate are kissing (ie no daylight btw them) then set the crimp adjustment knob for a light crimp if desired.

Worst case, you can switch over to Lee Undersized carbide sizing dies.

Edit: BCRider makes a good point about bullet seating depth. Grab a few sized cases and do a plunk test with one of your barrels that you know has problems with your reloads. If they seat and fall out easily, chances are your bullets may be seated too long. I know my LoneWolf and SA 1911 9mm have issues with seating depth.

You can grab one of the bullets that won't seat properly, colour the bullet with a Sharpie, remove the barrel from the gun that it has issues with (you don't want to be chambering live ammo at home in a functioning firearm) and try seating it a few times. Note any scuff marks on the Sharpie. If you see a noticable ring, chances are the OAL is a bit too long, try seating it a little deeper and see if it chambers cleanly. Another option, try a different brand of bullets or if you happen to have a factory crimp die, run the offending ammo through the die with the taper crimp backed off.
 
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