Help compare Ruger .44 "Hawks"

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foxfire235

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Hi All,

I'm in need of a small frame .44 mag for bear defense. Some of you may remember me asking a similar question last July on the same topic. Well I wasn't able to acquire a gun fast enough, so I had to struggle using my smith M29. We have another field season this year and I've narrowed my search down to the Ruger Super Black Hawk with 4 5/8" barrel or the Ruger Red Hawk with 5 1/2" barrel. Here are the details.

I need a gun that fits a small woman's hand.
I'm left handed
I don't have the finger strength for double action on my SW M29
I fly around in Helicopters and need something small and light that fits comfortably on my body (5' 2" 125lbs)
I need to have at least a .44 or something that has the same stopping power and loud crack as I'm using the gun for Polar Bear defense.


I've read up on both guns and they seem perfect, but I don't know which would make for a better gun. Since i shoot single action only as it is now, it seems to make more sense to buy the SBH. But can single action be re-loaded fast enough? What about cleaning the guns if they get dirty, muddy, or snowy? What about other factors I'm not thinking of? :)

Thanks and I appreciate the help!
 
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I've got a stainless Redhawk 5.5" and I love it. I suspect that if a bear was about to make a mess of you that you might just be able to use the double action, better to have it and not use it ;) I don't think that reloading would be a big issue as you would not likely have the chance in real use but if it concerns you go with the redhawk as well. However, after saying all that you had better try one out first, the grip is big and my wife is not comfortable with it.
 
i've got a redhawk in 7.5 and a blackhawk in 45colt- right off, the redhawk wins in the reload department- esp if you're using speedloaders- swing the cylinder down, push the rod, all 6 come out at once, drop the speedloader in, turn the knob,swing the cylinder back, and you're done- about the only thing faster is changing the mag in an auto, once you've practiced-remember, double actions can also be shot s/a if you so choose, and the s/a letoff is pretty crisp as for d/a, if you find the smith d/a heavy, the redhwk is an absolute bear -but i'd also throw a super redhawk into the mix, with a short barrel- the grip is different again- the redhawk fills my hands better, and i'm fairly large in that dept- and i'm left handed too- you use your trigger finget to push the cylinder release,then cross over the top with the speedloader in the right hand, or just swith over , speedload, and then switch back
 
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Stainless Super Blackhawk 4 5/8 with some custom fit grips.

How long is the barrel on your current revolver?
Why wasn't it working for you?
Are you working alone or are there other armed people with you?
How did you carry your Smith and Wesson?
 
"...don't have the finger strength for double action on my SW M29..." Have a trigger job done. A Smith trigger can be made as smooth as a baby's butt. Mind you, the frame on a 29 is big to start with.
"...in Helicopters..." S'ok as long as it's unloaded when actually in the chopper. It's illegal to have a loaded firearm in any vehicle. I suspect you know that though.
 
The Hawks

I would go with the Redhawk if it was me. I too carry for protection and I carry the S&W 629. Double action in these type of scenarios is best in my opinion.

I think with a slim pair of grips on a Redhawk, it should fit your hand better.

Greg
 
Can-down said:
Stainless Super Blackhawk 4 5/8 with some custom fit grips.

How long is the barrel on your current revolver?
Why wasn't it working for you?
Are you working alone or are there other armed people with you?
How did you carry your Smith and Wesson?
Click to expand...

thanks for all the help guys.

The barrel on the smith is 6.5" It doesn't work because the frame is too large for my hands (I can't easily reach the hammer, and I'm not strong enough for double action). There is one other armed person (handgun) and one shotgun left in the aircraft. I carried the smith in an across the chest bandolier style holster because it's so freaking big. I can't put it on my hip because the field gear we wear (helly hansen rain overalls) prevents that. Not to mention it would be majorly in the way getting in and out of the chopper for me with it on my hip.
 
Have you shot with or handled either of the Rugers?
Try and get to a range and try out some guns.
Depending on where you live I'm sure there is a CGNer out there that will let you try out a SuperBlackhawk or Redhawk...
You could always get the Redhawk's barrel shortened by a pistol smith but that will cost you a bit more.
 
If your having trouble reaching the hammer on your current revolver you definitely need to try a SBH out before buying. I have a SBH and I can empty it in a pretty reasonable time, reloading a single action is obviously much slower then a D/A with speed loaders. That is something you really need to consider. The lure of the 4 5/8" barrel is tempting but the Redhawk may suit your needs better. There are exercises to increase your grip strength and as someone already mentioned a good smith could reduce the trigger pull.
 
Not trying to be a smart ass....but if strength to pull the trigger DA is a problem, isn't the .44 a bit of a handful for you to aim and get a second shot off with? I'm picturing a wild recoil effect and a severely delayed follow up shot / shots. Maybe the longer barrel is a necessity for you to keep more control? My 2 cents, please don't be offended.

That being said, I just purchased both a Super Blackhawk .44 4 5/8's, and a Super Blackhawk Hunter 7.5 inch (trades and swaps to me father figure), I'll compare them thursday and let you know how it goes.
 
Well, as you know foxfire235 I have what you are looking for although it is not for sale at this time. The grips and frame have been modified for smaller hands. My wife and a few other women have shot it with no problems with the right loads. But have seen a bloody and bruised hand once with some of my "heavy" reloads ;). I couldn't figure out why my friends wife didn't want to shoot it anymore :confused: :D

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Where are you located? I would be more than willing to let you try it out for a while under the right circumstances. PM me again if you are interested and maybe we can work something out. We would have to go through all the right legal channels of course....

BTW, I myself would take a good double action revolver over a single action for bear defense any day of the week(I own and shoot both). But then again I have no problems shooting one handed, double action and spend time practicing that way. Maybe under your circumstances you might be better off with something more manageable, a double action .357 for instance.
 
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Just a few more comments to add to my last statement foxfire235.

You really need to find a handgun that you can be 100% efficient with for work/bear defense, your life and others around you may depend on it. A short barreled 44 mag is a handful for most shooters and unless you can use it to its full potential(this means lots and lots of practice) maybe something smaller would suit you better. Maybe, not a revolver at all....

I am of the opinion that a gun is only as good as the person using it. If you can only fire one or two shots off from a 44 mag and then cant continue to fire because the gun does not fit you and your shooting ability, you have the wrong gun.

I am in no way trying to steer you away from what you are looking for, just giving you something to think about.

Something else to keep in mind if you like the older Redhawk design is that they also made one in a .41 Rem mag. I own a .41 Rem mag in a SBH and it is a pleasure to shoot and still packs a wallop :). And if I had the chance to do another like the one pictured above, I would rather have the .41.

My offer still stands, PM me if you want to try the old girl out. It might help you decide on what you need.
 
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foxfire235 said:
thanks for all the help guys.

The barrel on the smith is 6.5" It doesn't work because the frame is too large for my hands (I can't easily reach the hammer, and I'm not strong enough for double action). There is one other armed person (handgun) and one shotgun left in the aircraft. I carried the smith in an across the chest bandolier style holster because it's so freaking big. I can't put it on my hip because the field gear we wear (helly hansen rain overalls) prevents that. Not to mention it would be majorly in the way getting in and out of the chopper for me with it on my hip.
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I am afraid that smallest size 44 is one of Ruger S/A revolvers. Since you want shorter barrel, and the grip is a big issue, considering importance of reliable firearm I would think of semi custom revolver. Before making any purchase, try Bisley, but with full power 44 loads. If it feels bit large that shouldn’t be a big issue; modified stock will solve that problem for 99% shooters. You should also try Super Blackhawk but I bet that Bisley would be a better choice. Since you are going to work in all kind of weather, I would consider stainless gun: http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=862&return=Y .

Here is what I would do:

1. Barrel modified by removing rib and shortening it to the length of ejector rod.
2. Stock modified so it will have same thickness as on the top. Also, edges behind triggerguard to be rounded.
3. Action job to be done, mainly to make sure that all burs and debris are out. You do not want hair trigger, standard pull is OK for defence firearm.
4. Cylinder latch to be checked and stronger spring installed.
5. ALL screws to be secured so they would not get loose.
6. Install one of those glowing sights so they would be visible in darkness.
7. Make sure that ammo is at least 300 gr., like Federal PREMIUM VITALSHOK HANDGUN HUNTING (http://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx?act=choose&firearm=2&s1=1 ), or similar.

Check with Gunnar at http://www.armco-guns.com/ , or some other reputable smiths, hope that other will provide leads. Yea, it will cost several hundred dollars on top of firearm purchase, but consider this revolver as the ONLY life insurance in the bush. You can also check in USA for one of those Acusport stainless Bisley with 5.5" barrel. Good luck, Onty.
myguns491.jpg
 
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I suspect that the problem you are facing is not so much a matter of strength in your hands rather the bulky factory grips and length from the back of the grip frame to the trigger being the problem. In order to shoot and control the gun effectively when held in a natural grip it should be in line with your forearm. The further out of line the gun is, the more strength it takes to squeeze the trigger and control the recoil.

The gun I like the Super Blackhawk. The speed of reloading single action revolvers is a point of some debate. There is no question that a DA revolver can be opened, the empty casing dropped out with a single push of the ejector rod reloaded with a speed loader and the cylinder closed faster than it takes to read this. One of the attributes of the SA is that like on the old TV westerns it never needs to run dry. When you've fired your second shot the first chamber if there is an empty under the hammer is now lined up with the loading gate. If you have a model that can safely carry 6 rounds, you're 3rd shot brings the first fired round in line with the loading gate. As the fired rounds come in line with the loading gate they can be replaces with fresh rounds, but if there is no time the gun can continue to fire. This does take some practice to master. If your SA runs dry, then yes the DA is quicker to reload, but if it doesn't run dry, you might get a shot off that you wouldn't with your empty DA.

I have the old style of SA grip and my wife can fire my 325 gr handloads, but the consensus of knowledgeable big bore revolver shooters is that the Bisley grip adds to the comfort and controllability of the gun.

I am afraid that your best bet is going to be some sort of custom revolver to accommodate your hand size. Attaching a K frame grip to your M-29 and cutting the barrel to 5" would to a large degree solve your problems. A big problem in Canada is that good pistolsmiths are much rarer than good rifle smiths, and the good ones are very busy which means you could go a year or more before your gun is finished. This is another reason to get a Ruger SA.

If you get to Churchill, look me up and I'll see that you get some good .44 ammo. Bear work isn't the place for factory .44's. Joan or Tony at HBH can get you in touch with me.
 
Thanks again folks for everything. One other serious complication is that I live in far off land called Nunavut, and am not within close range of any firearms dealer or gunsmith, and it's a $3000 ticket to get there. So I won't be able to visit a range or test anything before buying, which is unfortunate and a pain in the @ss. The cost of the gun is not a an issue. Getting what fits me best is most important. Can anyone recommend a good Canadian Ruger dealer?
 
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I would want more than a handgun when I shake hands with a bear. With that said, take a long look at a Glock 20 instead of a 44 mag. Why? The more bullets, the merrier! Regards, Richard:)
 
foxfire235 said:
Thanks again folks for everything. One other serious complication is that I live in far off land called Nunavut, and am not within close range of any firearms dealer or gunsmith, and it's a $3000 ticket to get there. So I won't be able to visit a range or test anything before buying, which is unfortunate and a pain in the @ss. The cost of the gun is not a an issue. Getting what fits me best is most important. Can anyone recommend a good Canadian Ruger dealer?
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Check out P&D Enterprises in the link above the threads. I've been watching their handgun prices for a while, and they seem to be quite reasonable. Where abouts are you?
 
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richardoldfield said:
I would want more than a handgun when I shake hands with a bear. With that said, take a long look at a Glock 20 instead of a 44 mag. Why? The more bullets, the merrier! Regards, Richard:)
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It seems that some CFO's are getting difficult about putting pistols as opposed to revolvers on ATC's. If the grip size of the N frame S&W is a problem, an auto chambered for a powerful cartridge would be little better in any case.
 
If a revolver is the only choice, have a gunsmith, that knows his trade, do a D/A trigger job. After this is done, learn how to shoot the revolver in D/A mode. What do I mean? Learn to pull the trigger straight through without staging it. Most shooters fire D/A by staging the trigger, they pull the D/A trigger partially and wait for the correct moment to fire. You want to wait for the correct moment and pull the trigger straight through. Regards, Richard:)
 
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